MCI Study Group 2024

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Answers to our first quiz:

1 – Which line will sink faster, one weighing 300 grains, or one weighing 500 grains?
From Paul Brown: Depends. The speed at which they sink is controlled by the density of the coating and not the grains.
And Lyth Hartz: The weight of the line is not what matters regarding sink rate, it is the density of the line that matters. The one with the most density will sink faster.
Yes – The sink rate is dependent on density (mass divided by volume) not the mass or weight.

2 – Do fly lines with longer front tapers deliver more delicately than those with short front tapers?
From Rene Hesse: If we did not use a leader the answer would be yes. However, the delicacy of the delivery will have more to do with the leader than the fly line.
And Tony Ertola: Long front tapers turn over smoother with less “kick” than short front tapers but ultimately the delicacy comes from a well designed leader that is properly proportioned to dissipate the energy from the fly line through the leader and tippet.
There are a number of factors that affect the delicacy of delivery. All other things being equal a longer front taper will dissipate more energy and would be a factor in delicate delivery but other factors include the fly line weight (a light weight line will give a more delicate delivery than a heavy weight line), the density of the line (sinking lines tend to kick more than floating lines), the leader, the fly itself (one way to enhance your curve cast is to use a smaller amount of casting yarn and to soak the yarn in floatant), and the design of the taper (e.g., compound vs straight).

3 – Considering modern fly lines, can you throw as tight a loop with a stiff line as with a more supple one?
From Rene Hesse: The path of the rod tip will determine the loop size and shape not the stiffness.
From Tony Ertola: With a short, soft cast, it may be possible to throw a tighter loop with a softer line. I don’t think a stiff line will hinder a tight loop in any practical situation.
From Bob Garber: I’m thinking it would depend on the environment in which the lines are being used. A stiff line in a cold location would not be as manageable as a more supple line; a supple line in a tropical location may not be as manageable either.
Yes – the path of the rod tip determines the loop size and shape but the environment can affect the manageability of the line.

4 – When a very good caster throws a WF line long distances, what is the right amount of “overhang”?
From Paul Brown: The amount of overhang will vary dependant on ability, casting style, rod action and wind conditions.
From Tony Ertola: The exact amount of overhang is subject to the specific line taper and the ability of the caster. It seems to me that short rear tapers have a narrower “sweet spot” range in regard to the amount of overhang and become increasingly difficult to control with more than that. Long rear tapers seem to me to be more forgiving.
From Bob Garber: It depends on how well the caster can control the running line in the air, how straight the caster can keep it. Its best to keep the belly of the line close to the rod tip.
From Rene Hesse: It depends. The ability of the caster, at what point in the casting sequence…last back cast or not etc. It is not the wrong amount until the caster can’t deal with it properly.
Further to Rene’s commend about the last back cast, one of the “tricks” distance casters use is to shoot extra line into their last back cast. It is possible to carry extra overhang for a single casting stroke.

A note from Lefty Kreh about using mono to make clear fly lines:

Walter,

Bart Foth a well-to-do Gettysburg fly fishermen with Flip and several others used 150 and 200 pound mono to make fly lines. In the late 1960s Shakespeare came out with the first clear mono WF line. They used a mono core forming the taper over it. It bombed — the core was only 12 pound-test.

From 1964 until 1972 I managed the largest fishing tournament in the world called the MET (short for Miami Metropolitan Fishing Tournament).At the time there were a number light tackle clubs in southern Florida who were able to fish throughout the year. They held fiercely competitive events among members in fly, plug, spin and light general tackle.

The Met and these club members are responsible for many of the major advancements in modern light tackle and fly fishing Much of what we know of modern saltwater fly fishing is based on what the Met and these club developed.

It was in the 1970s I realized that there is no one way to cast and we are physically different so no individual can cast like anyone else. Instructors taught students the way they cast. I thought we should teach principles of casting not methods or styles and in 1986 in the second revised edition of Saltwater Fly Fishing I introduced the concept of teaching principles of casting.

The first saltwater world record requirements were put together by writer Mark Sosin in 1965—no world records existed in saltwater prior to this. Most of the original rules were based on the rules of the MET Tournament and the Miami Beach Rod And Reel Club.

Fly fishermen today have little idea how much light tackle and fly fishing advanced during the 1960s and much of the 1970s.

Thanks Lefty. I plan to follow up with a discussion regarding Lefty’s comments about teaching principles at a later date but there is still a lot to cover on fly lines.

The AFTMA rating system for fly lines determines the weight of the first 30 feet of a fly line. For example, the first 30 feet of a 6 weight fly line weighs 160 grains. It doesn’t matter if the line is weight forward, double taper, triangle tapered, floating, or fast sinking – the first 30 feet weighs 160 grains. This makes it easy to choose a fly line for my 6 wt rod regardless of the type of line. There are no standards for anything after the first 30 feet. For example the length of the head of a weight forward line may be 30 feet or it may be 60 feet. My running line may be any thickness.

In order to make a fly line float well the coating will contain air bubbles or micro balloons to make them float. In order to make a fly line sink manufacturers include tungsten in the coating to increase its density. If you compare a 6 weight floating line to 6 weight sinking line you will notice that the sinking line is thinner than the floating line and the faster sinking the line the thinner it will be. Since the sinking line has greater density than the floating line we have to make it thinner in order to keep the same weight in the first 30 feet.

In a previous post I talked about fly lines having a weight (eg. 160 grains) that conforms to the AFTMA rating. Lines also have a density that tells us how well it floats or how fast is will sink. I also described a property called its linear density (i.e. grains per foot). For example, a 6 weight line has a linear density of 5.3 grains per foot. One of the uses for linear density is to determine what type of detachable sink tip will match up with my current line. It is difficult to turn over a sinking tip that has a greater linear density than my fly line. If I attach a T-5 sink tip to the end of my 6 weight line it will turn it over quite nicely. If I attach a T-10 tip it will be difficult to turn it over. Another use for linear density is in the design of custom lines. If, for example, I want to create a 15 foot shooting head for my 6 weight rod I will use a line that has a linear density of 10.7 grains per foot because this will give my shooting head a total mass of 160 grains – exactly the same as the first 30 feet of my off the shelf 6 weight line. If I wanted to build a line with a 50 foot head that had a similar feel to my standard 6 weight line I would select a line with linear density of 3.2 grains per foot because 50 feet of that line would weigh 160 grains.

Next – We will have one more quiz about fly lines about moving on to a discussion about fly rods.

‘Many years ago I attached yarn to the leader when casting. I was never satisfied with the results for the little yarn ball never felt like a fly but more like a miniature parachute, making it difficult for the tippet to turn over. I stop using it.

Maybe 10 years ago I was in St Pete, Florida with Pat Damico, an FFF fly casting instructor and old friend, who showed me what I regard as an excellent answer. Pat uses soft surveyors cord or similar material. He cuts a short length, folds it and ties a knot. I prefer making a small nail knot rather than a knot.

I”ve attached a photograph. A knotted example is on the left in the photo and the rest are secured with a nail knot. Fray the two legs with a needle and attach the tippet to the looped eye. The shortest one in the photograph is used when casting a dry fly and when casting bigger flies use the looped yarn with longer legs.

Pat’s looped yarn gives the impression of casting a real fly. It doesn”t tangle in the grass or in the trees and costs less than a penny to make. If you are taking casting photos the Pat’s gadget looks just like a fly.

To give the impression you’re casting a weighted fly I double several lengths of lead core fly line and whip finish a loop to stabilize the legs.