Task 6 Discussion 5

[GH] From Ralph Tomaccio (His zipped roll cast animation of Ally Gowans' drawings in the 2nd attachment) :

Hi Gordy,

With Ally’s permission, I have taken his 9 individual roll cast images and turned them into a Quicktime animation, which is attached. He said to feel free to distribute it.

Regards,

Ralph Tomaccio

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[GH] From Bernd Ziesche (please note his drawings in the attachment ) :

Hello Gordy,

thanks for sharing Ally's picture serious. Nice work!

Attached is a picture I made when discussing creep on Sexyloops. Might be interesting, too. Nr. 2 shows the good form!

One thing I teach my students on the static roll cast is: "The fly line should leave the water at the position of your feet (no further)." This is to secure there is always enough mass (fly line) in the D. Really helps to reach distance with ease.

Thanks

Bernd

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[GH] Bernd,

As you can see, if we use a roll cast tool or someone standing on the leader when performing task 6 on grass, that isn't going to happen. .. the fly will lift off at the point of fixation.

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[GH] From Gary Eaton :

Gordy,

In Master Ally Gowan's fine drawings, NO line rests behind the rod tip AND. the D-Loop "P-Point" is too far forward for non-water simulations, practically. Land anchoring requires some line behind the rod tip as there is no "slide" of the line toward caster as expected on water.

P-point in front of caster is questionable for water anchored casts. A Governor &THCI addressed the P-point in a THCI class I attended and dismissed it as a not useful reference. He pointed-out that while static roll-casting in still water, the so-called P-point is really somewhere under the rod - and certainly behind the caster's wet toes as in "plumb bob" physics with free movement of fly-line on the water.

I agree with Master Walt Simbirski's questions trying to define length allowed behind the caster. His questions are well-suited to my own issues. I have had Governor's disallow a reach back with leaning and heard failed candidates disgusted by the blatant lack of realism in the artificial limits to D-loop size on land. The problem is real and reputation of the CICP suffers. Is the task to determine ability to make realistic casts? ability to teach? or, ability to make unrealistic casts with no practical potential?

Much of this, I realize, is the result of individual examiner's "preferences', and that is the problem. Following is my rationale for describing a non-water "fly starting point" to reduce these vagaries. No fly starting point is addressed for water-anchored casts as they would likely be closer after "slide" toward the caster in set-up position.

When I use a "slotted" anchoring device, it rests, ideally, less than 23-feet in front of my toes for 50-ft. roll casts. Consider, with rod butt 5,5-ft from the ground and tip 9-ft above that = 14-ft, theoretically (there may be some rod-tilt reducing this height as well as shorter casters)

Allowing for the rod tip resting in "key" position at 5-ft behind the line (5 + 14 = 19-ft)

(If a straight line is drawn as a hypotenuse at this position to the ground = over 14'10" .Considering the ground leg of the right triangle is 5-feet and height is 14-feet )

Add an arbitrary 1-ft of "sag" (19+1 = 20 ft, of line from rod tip to my toes.

Consider 7.5-ft. of leader and the amount of fly-line in front of casters toes is 50 - (20 + 7.5) or 50 - 27.5 = 22.5-ft. We can round that to 23-ft of fly line in front of the caster. This allows NO LINE behind the caster until we re-introduce the leader. Given that the right-angle of the theoretical triangle is rounded by the non-moving anchor resisting slide toward the caster, estimate that only about 3-feet of line starts behind the rod tip.

At 23-ft anchor distance and using the fly in the slot =

26-ft D-loop / 15.5 ft fly line in front of caster / 3.5 ft behind rod tip.

At 28-ft anchor, the D-Loop length 20-ft . - below 20-ft of D-Loop no line is behind the rod tip given my numbers above. This is not compatible with non-water roll cast loop width expectations.

I advocate a theoretical maximum of 23-ft, fly-to-toes, starting distance. Casters should be able to generate adequate loops with this set-up.

Why not establish a non-liquid anchored roll cast fly-position "at least 22-ft from the caster's toes?" All problems solved.

The caster can place an anchor wherever he likes in that 22-ft space and anchor the part of the leader he wishes. Smart candidates will optimize their mechanics by anchoring with the fly at 22-feet.

Gary Eaton, MCI

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