Leaders: Mass / Stiffness

Leader design is fun and bit of a passion for me. Many Atlantic Salmon fishers use 8 foot of 8 lb. Maxima for a leader and that's it. I have a number of classes each year with these fly fishers and numerous Fishing Guides from the Atlantic Provinces talking about energy transfer and the advantage of tapered leaders. One group of guides from the Miramichi River in New Brunswick asked me to do an entire class on just leaders !

Because we fish for Atlantic Salmon, Trout, then Striped Bass almost all during the same week I carry a wallet full of different leader designs (tapers). Most would be made the same way Harvey, Lefty and others made then years ago and a few are just my own make up. My tests are not very scientific, they just work for me !

My first concern is STIFFNESS of the butt. Can I hold up 6 inches of fly line and 6 inches of leader and make a uniform bend with the joint in the middle of the curve (everybody has done this). DIAMETER is my next concern as the connection may be made to a 9 wt line or a 3 wt. line. My own 'rule of thumb' is 8,9,10 wt lines I will use a 30 lb maxima butt; 5,6,7 wt a 25 lb. butt and 2,3,4 a 15 - 20 lb butt. Maxima just seems to be a common material so the STIFFNESS and DIAMETER appear to be compatible with those line weights. I do think MASS is important, MASS is WEIGHT and to some extent density, and I (like others) adjust the MASS by shortening or lengthening the BUTT. Kenetic energy involves MASS and Velocity so mass needs to be considered but even physicists cant agree on it's affects, (Sometimes I wish I had more knowledge of physics, but then we can get too complicated and take the fun out of it all). Technically 'mass does increase with speed, because the faster an object moves, the more resistant it becomes to being accelerated.' (Philip Gibbs and Jim Carr, late 1990s).

When making my leaders: 1. BUTT stiffness, diameter and BUTT length; 2. TAPER ( mostly depending on the fly and the type of fishing);

At the end of the day MASS takes a lesser consideration for me because it is difficult to quantify (doesn't mean it is not important). Sure I don't want the leader to be too heavy to be carried by the fly line and I surely don't want it to be too light, So! To sum it up, adjusting the MASS for me is changing the BUTT length, and that depends on the type of fishing, type of fly and the daily conditions, therefore it is extremely difficult to use MASS as an sort of constant when building a leader.

Thanks Gordy, Keep up the great work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well..... that is why I have taken the position that butt section STIFFNESS is a very important issue. MASS PROFILE must necessarily also be of importance ..... perhaps more so, because without enough of it you simply cannot turn a leader over. It is not easy to measure, so we use "arms length" methods of estimating it..... such as making some weight assumptions as we really try to match relative diameters. (I don't know any one who actually weighs segments of butt section material and fly line segments ...... though perhaps someone has done that.)

Lefty did a demo on the subject of stiff vs. pliable leader butt sections. He took two identical outfits .... only difference being that one had a very stiff leader butt section and the other a soft (pliable) one.

The one with the soft butt section turned over just like the end of the fly line. The one with the very stiff butt section material behaved differently: The fly line loop remained tight until the loop unfurled to the leader ... from that point on, the butt section of the leader tended to, "stand straight", obviously resisting the bend. This opened up the leader loop. An instance where the fly line and the leader behaved differently. (If anything, I'd bet the stiffer material had a higher density and specific gravity ..... yet it didn't turn over well.)

He wrote in his, PRESENTING THE FLY, p. 47:-

"Let me say a few words about what I think is important in building any kind of tapered leader. For years we've been told that we should use stiff material in the butt section. I believe this to be totally wrong. When your rod sweeps forward and stops, the line behind you begins unrolling from the tip. Gradually the ine unrolls until it arrives at the leader - which must also unroll to delive the fly. Common sense should tell you that if a supple fly line unrolls and arrives at the leader; a stiff butt section is going to resist unrolling. What you reallly need is enough supple weight in the butt section to cause the leader to continue to unroll. You need a flexible butt section, but one heavy enough to let the inertia from the line continue to unroll the reamainder of the leader......."

I have used that, "six inch bend test" for years to try to match the bendability of the butt section to that of the fly line .... and I find that it is a big help.

The, "bendability" of thin diameter stiff material can be about the same as that of thick diameter soft, pliable material.

For very light outfits in the fresh or salt, I want a tiny, smooth connection between my butt section and the fly line ...... like a needle knot. I can't get thick, pliable stuff through the end of the line, so I use thin/stiff material. The bendability is about the same.

I, also, use a heavy enough butt section ( 50 lb. test to 60 lb. test nylon mono.) for my salt water big game leaders so the mass is great enough to carry sufficient energy to and through the remainder of the leader to turn it over..... even with a big fly. As you do, I change the length of my butt sections to suite circumstances. While that does change the total mass of that section of the leader, it doesn't change the mass per length, mass per diameter, or mass per volume of material.

With some of my tarpon leaders, I use a short, untapered segment of furled 20 lb. test material. This furled segment is quite pliable. I take this and turn it back on itself, furling the furl. This stiffens the segment dramatically.

Tom White and I gave classes in salt water design of 3 - 4 hrs. duration espousing these principles. The feed back from our attendees, including professional guides, was very good ..... because we provided real information which literally helped them catch more fish.

One problem with teaching all this is that most fly casting students come away with no real understanding of mass and mass profile. They can't see it and they don't measure it. They CAN and do understand diameter of material and stiffness.

1.) Both mass & stiffness of the butt section are important to the function and turnover of the leader.

2.) With insufficient mass, the leader won't turn over well or not at all.

3.) A very stiff butt section can distort the leader loop.

4.) Thick, pliable material can have the same bendability as thin, stiff material.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Ally Gowans:-

Lots of interesting comments on this topic.

I use a 700grn SA Deep Water Express and many other fast sinking shooting heads and have no trouble casting them and no obvious “kick” from the leader despite using fairly heavy brass tube flies sometimes. My “leader” is about four or five feet of 0.47mm diameter Seaguar fluorocarbon (depending on how long it has been used) permanently attached to the line and my “tippet” is usually 0.405 mm or 0.37 mm fluorocarbon about 3 ft long total 7 or 8 ft. I have no doubt that I would get kick if I didn’t control the outgoing running line to ensure a smooth turnover or if I didn’t use an oval back cast to ensure a smooth transition into the forward stroke. Choice of running line is important here, if its too light there be insufficient drag to induce gradual turnover. I am of course using rods of 17ft or 18ft long for this work and that means that I can get a long smooth stroke and repeated casts of 120 to 150 ft are perfectly possible. Kick is a symptom of excess energy and is exacerbated by allowing fast turnover and its presence can be reduced by care in delivery, just enough energy is plenty. Kick is of course encouraged by poor transition between line and fly. Incidentally the 2/3 rule or at least a 2/3 rule originated many years ago concerning the adjoining diameters of gut leaders or casts as they were then called, this recommends that diameters should be reduced by more than 2/3 at a step in a leader and it is good rule of thumb advice.

Incidentally your message reminded me of a fly that I found very difficult to cast at a school in New Jersey. We were using two handed rods in the salt and the “Bunker” fly was impossible to Spey cast in a 4ft wave! Overhead it was no problem!

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ally: That, "Bunker" fly usually is tied on a large, heavy hook .... and it is BIG and highly air resistant Even more water resistant as you pick it up from the anchor position. It becomes sort of a SEA ANCHOR ! Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Guy Manning:-

Gordy,

You may or may not have missed my solution to the hinging problem in my last post. It was further down the page:

At the Fly Fishing Show in Pleasanton just over a year ago Woody Woodland, MCI found a leader on the floor of the convention center. It looked sort of like a furled leader but instead was twisted. The upper 1/3 was 4 strands, the middle 1/3 was 2 strands and the lower 1/3 or tippet was a single strand that appeared to be tied to the second section.

We started asking around and found out it was a “Twisted” leader made from a single strand of 20# test line for the upper 2 sections. We were given a demo on how to make it by Al Smatsky. When I got home I made one up using a drill motor and tried them out the next day. I was immediately casting to 100 feet with the same line and fly as before. The only difference was the leader. Problem solved by accidently finding a leader at a trade show…

“Chance favors the prepared mind.” - Louis Pasteur.

We used these in Baja last season and they worked great and held up to some good pull applied by Dorado, Yellowfin, Jack Cravelle etc.

Making a twisted leader is fairly simple and I have an instructional pdf on my website http://castflys.net/Documents/Twisted.pdf that can be downloaded. I use 20# P-Line fluorocarbon on my 300gr and 400gr lines. I use 30# on my 500gr line. The 20# also works well on my 9wt and 11wt bonefish and tarpon tapers, both of which are full intermediate sink lines. I will be getting a couple of the new SA Sharkskin Saltwater tapers soon and will experiment with them to see what they like. I should also mention that for saltwater I use braided loops for joining all aspects of my lines, leaders and backing.

Guy Manning

FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor

Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group

www.castflys.net

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Guy... Good stuff ! I had missed it.

We used to make twisted leaders for sailfishing using a drill. Out at sea, we used an old fashion egg beater. With true furling, I turn end, "A" over line, "B" a given number of thurns. I, then, turn end, "B" over line, "A" for the same number of times...... makes a single, untapered furl. Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~