Rick...
I DO agree with Bruce.
Might look at it this way: The whole idea of a density compensated line is to have the specific gravity of the tip section equal to or greater than that of the belly so the belly of the line doesn't sink first.
With sink tips you have no "belly" until you attach that tip to a flyline the weight and specific gravity, (density) of which you choose. This choice almost always results in the, "sink tip" being of greater specific gravity than the rest of the line, anyway......so it will sink first whether or not it's tapered.
The taper has a greater effect the longer the sink tip.......but not to help it sink; rather to have the loop travel faster as the heavier section unrolls to the thinner (lighter) section, since the velocity increasses as the square of the decreasing mass. (The physics behind a bull whip).
Even this is a non-factor unless you are casting a long enough sink tip that the RSP occurs with only the base of this tip just out of the rod tip, unless you have a heavier belly behind it.
Before we had these fancy sink tapers, we used to buy a straight (level) 800 grain line and cut it into sections.....the longer the section, the greater weight. We used them as, "sink tips" attached to floating fly lines from which we had removed the factory tip. Worked OK for King Salmon holding deep in the, "bucket" of a turn in an Alaskan river. We'd keep a tip-section wallet with pre-cut lengths to match the depth and current velocity.
For deep salt fishing, we'd have our fastest sink presentation by doing the same thing, but attaching those segments of sink line directly to mono. TRYING TO CAST THAT WAS A HOOT until we'd had a lot of practice! For this kind of, "presentation", the turnover was inconsquential. The casting technique is a bit too complicated to go into here. I'll do that at another time.
Gordy
From: "Rick Whorwood" <whorwood@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Fw: Sink Tips systems
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:25:05 -0600
Hi Gordy
So the reason for the taper in a density compensated leader ? Would it only be beneficial to the turn over, or would it have something to do with the presentation (underwater). Would the taper effect the presentation in the water, i.e. maybe not as stable (because of the diameter) as a level line (because of the currents), more to do with river fishing.
If we put a heavy (grain wt) enough line behind the tip it will turn over a level line without a problem. Although possibly not as smooth a transition as you might like, once in the water (as Bruce points out) because of the level density, it will sink the same as the tapered density comp. sink tip. Would there be any advantage to build a set of sink tips out of density compensated tips, is the question? (Bruce said no, your thought's)
Hope this all makes sense
Thanks for your help
Rick
----- Original Message ----- From: <bwrichards@xxxxxxx>
To: "Rick Whorwood" <whorwood@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: Sink Tips
>
>Hello Rick,
>Switching to density comp. tips would have no impact on success.
>What you
>are using now is essentially density comp because it is level. Dens.
>Comp.
>is important for tapered lines where the small diameter sections
>would sink
>slowly without it.
>Yes, a heavier line will turn over heavy tips better than a lighter
>one.
> a 12 wt. would work better than an 11 wt, than a 10 wt., as long
>as
>the rod would handle the weight.
>Bruce
>
>Scientific Anglers/3M
>4100 James Savage Rd.
>Midland, MI 48642 USA
>Tel: 989-496-1113
>Fax: 989-496-3374
>
>
>
> "Rick Whorwood"
> <whorwood@cogeco.
> ca>
> To
> <bwrichards@xxxxxxx>
> 01/09/2006 07:56
> cc
> AM
>
>Subject
> Sink Tips
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Bruce
>All the best in /06. Sorry if I'm driving you nut's with all this
>stuff, I
>think by now you know me well enough to know, it's my never ending
>continues educational program.
>My /05 Steelhead season was spent swinging flies, it was a very
>productive
>season, The tip system I used was T-10 or T-14 cut at lengths from
>2ft to
>10ft with floating line added to maintain a total length of 12ft. In
>many
>situations by changing the tip up or down 2ft in length I had a
>successful
>day. What would you suggest would improve this system, possibly
>using
>density compensated tip's cut, instead of level line?
>One last question : I have two S/A Ultra 4 double taper lines,
>10-11wt, do
>you make a 12wt D-T, the 12 would turn over T-14 much better then
>the 11wt.
>Thanks for your help as always
>Rick
>