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Walter & Group...
[GH] From Tony Loader:
Hi Gordy,
Ralph asked "How does any CCI separate the truly necessary info from the geeky?"
My answer is "By teaching". Some students might accept pat statements. Intelligent ones ask "Why?" Some disagree, giving plausible reasons. An MCI needs to be ready with logical answers and/or demonstrable proof. Each such encounter points the way forward. Teaching aspiring MCIs effectively accelerates the process.
Having said that, I wish Laurence Baggett the very best of luck convincing Wil of the error of Wil's ways :-)
Regards,
Tony.
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[GH] Tony...You couldn't resist that last comment ! :-)
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[GH] Mark Roberts comments:
Hi Gordy
I was concerned to hear of Ralph Tomaccio's worries about the study group in that it appears to confuse rather than help him. I have seen this happen with other organizations when deep discussions start and run away with themselves.
The truth is that we are there to teach fishing and how to allow the client to get the most from their experience with you the coach/instructor. For this to happen effectively we need to be able to ask and confirm what the clients needs are and what actually is it they want. We then need to be able to deliver that information in the simplest terms so that they achieve success no mater what the aim of the lesson is.
Once that has happened I now want to get the client to develop further this could mean asking them to attempt something that they have never done before and it matters not whether it is a fishing skill or an adapted or new cast for we all only learn when we are out of our comfort zone. ( I remember in my trainers day we called this the squirm zone).
It may well reassure Ralph that I too am sometimes completely lost as the meaning of what is being discussed is a mystery to me, but more often than not I have reviewed what has been said grabbed the rod and attempted to put into practical application. This has allowed me some minor and major leaps in my learning.
It may already happen but is there a facility for a CCI or MCI to contact someone outside the group that may be able to put the issues into perspective. I suspect that you do this in any case Gordy?
This has to be a safe learning environment where any comment that is out of sync shouldn't be condemned but the student should be supported and developed. If that isn't the case then we end up with someone who isn't prepared to ask and could well form a view that is wrong and detrimental to a client.
Finally as an MCI I have a responsibility to ensure that those that wish to get to the standard need to start to think out of the box and be able to answer the questions that another candidate in training may ask. This simply means that an MCI has to be fit for purpose which is ultimately to train others to that standard. Remember in my view all that the MCI award means is that you have completed your apprenticeship then its time to learn and pass on that baton.
best wishes
mark
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[GH] Mark,
Well said.
To your question: "It may already happen but is there a facility for a CCI or MCI to contact someone outside the group that may be able to put the issues into perspective. I suspect that you do this in any case Gordy?"
I regularly answer questions posed outside the forum of this Group to help clarify issues. I do so by telephone or whenever a member or candidate sends me an email as a private message. Many do this because of their understandable reluctance to let others know they might not understand something.
This speaks to the concept of candidate mentoring. When this works as i think it should, it helps reduce confusion as the mentor provides his own interpretation.
Tomorrow, I'll be doing a practice MCI exam for a candidate who has been mentored by Dusty Sprague.
I just finished a conversation over these issues with Jeff Wagner who will probably send us his message soon. As part of our conversation, we discussed Don Phillips' book, "The Technology of Fly Rods". Don is a well respected mechanical engineer. A "geek" ? Perhaps. Despite that, I'd like to share a quote :
"There is an intimate partnership between the angler and his fly rod; a curious mixture of art and science which has thus far defied attempts to reduce it to a systematic body of knowledge." *
Don wrote that almost 12 years ago. Since then, we've acquired a mountain of technical theory and hard evidence which has made it even more difficult to reduce it to a commonality between science and art.
* The Technology of Fly Rods, by Don Phillips, 2000, p. 79.
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[GH] From Jim Valle I highlighted one passage which I try to do on a daily basis :
Gordy and Group,
Let us try to remember what it means to be a Master… it is about Understanding…. And that means Understanding the other person's point of view …. “It is a wise man that knows what he Doesn’t know” … being open and having a strong foundation … but with some modesty and acknowledging that there is Always something more to learn! A different point of view to consider…. There is no Right or Wrong in art!
Casting Instructing to me is an Art… I use different word colors and approaches for every student …I take the science add it to my knowledge base and factor it into my ever changing and growing understanding. For me personally I still use the “line goes where the rod tip goes” and will continue to do so because it works for my students … (if I were teaching a physics class I would approach with a different goal) and when I have a real physics student who learns that way … I’ll tell him more because that is the picture he needs to learn…. Masters need the broad base of knowledge and the only way to get that is to recognize you don’t know it all and remain open to a new point of view or the other guy’s approach to teaching .
If we can understand different learning styles … artist, engineer etc… Shouldn’t we also accept different teaching styles?
Part of being a Master is the responsibility to represent the FFF, and it’s mission. Which includes teaching other instructors (all the time, in everything we say, write and how we present it). That translates to respecting other points of view and being able to handle controversial issues in public without drawing battle lines. There are no absolutes… “it depends”… we learn from disagreement when it is done respectfully.
Hope this helps,
Jim V
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[GH] Mike Heritage weighs in once again :
Hi Gordy,
I wrote a defense of my position yesterday but decided to wait and see if any others felt as I and Dan did. I am glad that Ralph has also expressed a concern although I must tell him not to let it put him off preparing for the masters. I wasn't asked one 'geeky' question in my oral. If anything it was me that became geeky.
I think that anyone who decides to become an instructor will get drawn into technical side of the mechanics out of pure curiosity, some will take it further than others. In fact I could be termed a geek, I have well over two thousand posts on Sexyloops and my own blog to prove it. However I still see a need to separate what is useful as an instructor and what is interesting from a geeks view point. CCI and MCI candidates should also bare in mind the fact that the level of knowledge some of us may have was not created over night, it has taken many years to accumulate. Most of it by lively debate here and elsewhere.
Unlike Ralph I don't believe we have gone off track all the while we are allowed to offer the (sometimes) slightly different points of view that Gordy allows to be freely expressed here.
Thanks Gordy,
Mike
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