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Walter & Group...
[GH] I'LL BE AWAY FOR A FEW DAYS. WHEN I RETURN, WE'LL HAVE A NEW TOPIC :
"DIAGNOSING FAULTS".
TO ALL OF YOU U.S.A. MEMBERS - HAPPY THANKSGIVING !
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[GH] Ally Gowans has an unusual capacity to place things in perspective. His summation (Highlights are mine.):
Hi Gordy,
Peer review is indeed a great way to establish respected conclusions.
The problem is not of today, it is that many of the “rules”, “principles”, “observations” etc. relating to fly casting that have enjoyed acceptance for teaching purposes have been insufficiently challenged in the past, and instead they have been accepted verbatim by some or perhaps even a majority of instructors.
This is because when teaching all subjects we introduce simple concepts to begin with and only when the student is ready to understand the limitation of those do we move on to more detailed analysis. The simple concepts are very useful, but they are limited.
If MCI level does not require a better understanding of the underlying physics of fly casting than the “rules” etc. referred to so be it. Where ignorance is bliss it is folly to be wise.
Many great instructors would not lay claim to a deep understanding of the physics involved and they still do a great job. However for those who seek a level of knowledge that is closer to the fact even if this is not essential for the purposes of obtaining even the highest qualifications relating to fly casting, sharing of views and opinions across the globe can only advance our sport and tackle design. I wrote “closer to the fact” because there are too many factors involved in a fly cast for us to precisely predict the outcome but even a better qualitative understanding is very helpful.
Best regards,
Ally Gowans
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[GH] Ally,
Well said !
We are trying to go beyond that. To this end we have many examiners on this Study Group.
If an MCI candidate answers a question on either an oral or a written exam based upon his advanced knowledge which goes beyond the "rules" and dogma of the day and the ken of his examiner, he might flunk unless given the opportunity to make his case. A written exam doesn't provide that opportunity.
As an examiner, more than once I've learned from an exceptional candidate who knew more than I did on an issue.
Gordy
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[GH] MY SUMMATION :
My advice to Master candidates who may be confused as to how to handle this question should it come up on an MCI oral exam:
We have seen wide differences of opinion stated in the many messages we've reviewed. We've also seen opinions which mirror those of others. The thinking candidate really should be in the position of digesting this information and considering it in light of his own experience casting and teaching.
As you study these messages you cannot avoid forming your own opinions as to which ones seem to make good sense as opposed to some of them which may not.
On controversial issues such as this, we must learn to THINK and then come to informed conclusions. That entails consideration of the opinions of others. More importantly, it also consists of weighing the theoretical and actual evidence presented. In the end, the candidate must come to his own conclusions.
If I were asked the question, "DOES THE LINE ALWAYS FOLLOW THE ROD TIP?", I'd answer after considering these things:
1. There is likely nothing in fly casting which ALWAYS happens.
2. There is, at this time, lack of consensus with respect to the details of what actually happens even as some of the line appears to follow the rod tip.
3. Many instructors use the statement that the line follows the rod tip as they teach basic fly casting because it works in the field. Informed members of this instructor group know that this isn't a complete answer.
4. Instructors who prefer to teach strictly according to the dictates of physics take a different position. Most of them are of the opinion that under most physical conditions, at least a small segment of the fly line probably does follow the rod tip. They opine that only with a less than likely theoretical alignment of force vectors with the line would the whole line follow the path of the rod tip.
5. One way of looking at the fly line is to see it in terms of a series of segments like the links in a chain. Considering each "link" in terms of the forces acting upon it as well as its own momentum may provide a better appreciation of what is actually happening as the loop forms and the line overtakes the rod tip. Scientists call this, "finite element analysis".
6. The line movement with respect to the movement of the rod tip will depend upon many factors principle among which is the resultant of vector forces and the alignment of them with the fly line. That resultant, if in the direction of the rod tip motion can result in at least some of the fly line taking the same path. The reverse is also true. From a physics standpoint, this is probably what actually happens. However, it remains plausible theory until we have scientific experiments which prove the point. Aitor's simple experiment comes close. That same experiment done with a flexible "rod" would be more convincing to some.
When you do finally form your conclusion :
a.) Be able to support it with both FACTS, THEORY and LOGIC.
b.) Keep an open mind as you review new information.
c.) As Aitor Coteron did, even better to design your own experiment or demonstration to support your viewpoint. (Despite all the theory discussed, his was the only actual demonstration.)
d.) If you do this, be certain your explanations match your demonstration.
e.) For both teaching and answering questions on an exam, keep your explanations short and crisp. Be ready to expand when and if asked.
f.) Perhaps I'll need to answer in two ways: First, the way I'd do so with a new caster. Second, a more scientific answer.
g.) An expert fly caster whether a romanticist or physicist can accurately place his line in the direction of the target as he appears to move his rod tip in that direction.
Now, lets pretend that we know nothing about science or physics as we enter the World of an uneducated Native fly fisher in the Out Islands of the Bahamas.
Clarence was my native guide when fishing Great Exuma. He learned to fly cast by the process of imitation combined with trial and error. He knew nothing whatever about physics and couldn't read or write.
Years later, when I returned to fish with him, I was amazed that his accuracy and efficiency of casting to moving bonefish was superb! When I asked him about this, his reply was: "I just makes the end of my rod flip at the fish," (My fishing buddy nicknamed him, "flip")
In his mind that line was following the path taken by the rod tip !
Brings me back to Gary Davison's last statement :
"I love all levels of teaching in this sport! The key to a good instructor is knowing what level to use when communicating to your student.
Successful results are the goal." ......Gary
Gordy
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