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Walter & Group....
[GH] Here is a brief string of messages between David Diaz, Ed Jaworowski, and me. Here we reach the shore of fly casting theoretical physics......................
Draw your own conclusions :
On June 23rd, Ed stated, "As soon as the hand moves forward and begins to rotate, the loop actually forms in the butt of the rod. Contrary to popular wisdom, the loop isn't created when the rod straightens. It's already in the flexed/loaded rod, as it is in a baseball bat, golf club or tennis racquet. It's hard to perceive it in these rather rigid materials, but a rod, being tapered, progressively flexes more toward the tip, then merely transfers the energy into the infinitely more flexible line and reveals the loop we recognize in the unrolling line. I have all my students participate in a demonstration to verify this. They are amazed and quickly understand how and why they can make longer casts, without casting harder. "
David Diaz answered :
Hi, Ed: I sure do wish that we'd had the loop formation conversation earlier this month at breakfast in Mt. Home. It would have been an interesting one, probably jaw-droppingly so. I have suscribed to the conventional wisdom about loop formation and had never considered the idea that the loop in the line is formed in the flexed/loaded rod, as it it is in a baseball bat, golf club or tennis racquet. Before commenting on the assertion that in fly casting the forward loop "forms in the butt of the rod" I would like it very much if, Ed, you would provide additional detail, specifically about the loop's being stored in the rod. Is the loop stored or is the energy that powers the loop stored? How does that happen, Ed? Do you know of any tests recorded on video that would amplify your understanding? I think many casting instructors would like to see that clip. Thanks, David Diaz
Followed by this note from me :
Ed,
When I shared your message with members of our Study Group, David Diaz (with whom you probably visited at the Conclave) sent the above message to you.
My own interpretation is that this is a brilliant concept which makes sense from a conceptual standpoint. As such, it doesn't necessarily have physical "proof". If it does; all the better. I can imagine it as the start of a flow of loop forming energy as the rod loads. A "gedanken" picture such as some of Einstein's concepts based upon an attractive hypothesis and taken to a logical conclusion.
Best,
Gordy
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G,
Thanks for the relay, G. My intuition (that's all) is that Ed probably can expand the idea enough so that we don't have to place loop formation on the same shelf as Shrodinger's cat and Maxwell's demon.
Best, D
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D,
Well, both were "Gedanken experiments" ... the first related to quantum theory with the "cat in the box with the atom" and the second an attempt to contradict the second law of thermodynamics.
We'll see what Ed comes up with. I'll bet you are right.
G.
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Ed's detailed response :
To: Gordy <hillshead@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: David Diaz <ddiaz444@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Gordy,
A flexed or bent rod represents stored energy, which is released when the rod straightens. If the rod is bent well into the butt, when that straightens it releases energy. The mass is less farther up the shaft and straightens faster, progressively so up the rod right to the tip top. When the rod reaches straight, the energy continues into the line which continues unrolling until it is spent, mainly through air friction or whatever.
I'm not sure exactly how to answer David's question, viz. "Is it the loop stored or the energy that powers the loop stored". I don't see the distinction, but that bend in the rod, ever so slight as it may be, represents the same energy that eventually shows up in the line. In essence, that is the loop, albeit in a different form from that we recognize in the tightly unrolling line.
It's a continuum. I think you phrased it well Gordy: "I can imagine it as the start of a flow of loop forming energy as the rod loads (or "unloads"?). A "gedanken" picture such as some of Einstein's concepts based upon an attractive hypothesis and taken to a logical conclusion." I don't know what actually constitutes physical "proof". After all, no has been able to "prove" that a straight line is the shortest distance between two points, but no one has been able to make a curved line that is shorter, so we accept the axiom.
The neat part is that you can load that rod into the butt with incredibly little effort, if you pay attention to that "critical angle". Engineers first pointed out to me how the curve of the rod changes when you start loading with a wide angle, as opposed to a smaller angle between the tip and the line. They grasped right away what was happening. And Rick Pope first remarked that what I was doing---for all practical purposes---was starting the loop in the rod. In my seminars I demonstrate this for my students. They can see and feel the effect, and instantly understand why and how they can load a rod very deeply with little effort. Some time, if we are together, I'd like to show this to you.
Here's a related and, I think, interesting anecdote. While I was discussing casting with a famous trick baitcaster years ago, he pointed out that the rod he used was very soft and flexible, and not really a good fishing rod, but that was not its raison d'être; it was only for making trick casts. It couldn't handle heavy lures or fight fish well at all. The rod was soft because the energy had to move from a relatively inflexible material (the rod) to the virtually limitless flexibility of the line. In order to lesson the dramatic transition, he used a very soft rod that, at least to some slight degree, approached the flexibility of the line. Made the whole thing work more smoothly. That's the first time I became aware of the connection between the bend in the rod and the loop in the line.
Ed
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[GH] Ed,
A concept I hadn't considered !
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