|
Walter & Group...
[GH] From Bernd Ziesche :
Hello Gordy,
Task 5: Mike asked for pull back - yes or no.
You answered:
"2.) When the curve cast is completed by counterflex alone, then it is a curve cast.
When you augment counterflex by rod tip movement or by pullback, I'd consider that a cast / mend. Since mends are disallowed, I cannot pass that one. "
This might be a language issue, but how can counterflex happen without rod tip movement?
When max counterflex is reached rebound will start. Isn't rebound a pull back to our line anyway?
Do we agree that a quick extra pull back added by additional rod hand movement would help to get the leader turn over faster in order to get a more significant curve? And if so who wouldn't want to learn it?
How exactly do we define a mend? That's the key question here, I think.
Let's say the curve cast is completed by counterflex alone. If we say a pull back would make a mend out of the whole cast (like the reach cast may be called reach mend today) what about a follow thru?
I think there are still a lot of casts that we name CAST (not mend) where we add rod tip movement after RSP1 (or 2).
For example the "Gebetsroither parachute" cast. Forward cast (high trajectory), stop and pull back. Is that a parachute mend now?
I personally think as long as a candidate is able to demonstrate and teach how to create a nice curve it's fine with me. Do we really have 100% perfect definitions that we all agree on? This in my opinion could be the only level to fail a candidate's cast based on definitions stuff... Where do I find these definitions?
What do you think?
Best
Bernd
p.s. Great topic, many thanks Gordy!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] Bernd,
YOU ARE CORRECT !!!! When we assist counterflex, we are assisting in the direction the fly is traveling. When we assist rebound, we make the belly of the line go in the opposite direction; thus augmenting the curve .
Both counterflex and rebound involve rod tip movement.
We can also make a curve layout with neither counterflex or rebound if we use a rod which won't bend or by hand casting so what we call a "mend" is alteration of the position of the line after we've made the cast and the fly has been sent on its way.
Not a language issue at all... my error !
Thanks for pointing that out.
Having no formal definitions is a problem. I think we all agree on that.
I don't think Hans Gebetsroither had definitions to work with, either.
We shouldn't flunk a candidate for not knowing certain definitions when we really don't have them... agreed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] From Paul Arden :
Hi Gordy,
as you know I'm very much against excluding pull-back from a curve cast, since to me that's putting the cart before the horse. Line layout configuration and cast function should come before terminology - it's not a task on definitions! I also don't agree that pull-back is a mend, since I believe its primary purpose is to increase Tension.
I think this task needs to be revisited by the MCI committee - and as you know we've discussed it with them!
There is also another problem in how this task is being examined which I've been trying to track down, where some examiners are saying that a curve of line on the opposite side to the hook indicates that a mend has been made - in other words the line layout should be strictly L-shape. This is not the case and the small curve of line is actually a wave created by the line flipping over.
Personally I'd like to see overpowered and underpowered off both shoulders, with a number of methods of teaching both - because in my experience people struggle with this cast.
Cheers, Paul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] Paul,
I think that does make good sense. Curve layouts are much more efficiently made that way.
This is how I teach curve casts when not coaching a candidate.
A simple word picture for teaching a curve which works for students is this : " Aim it to one side, then quickly flip the line to the other side." Often, a student who has never been able to make a curve sees this as an epiphany. Often followed by a comment such as, "Hey look ! That's easy !"
Even works when hand casting or using my crude broomstick rod where you have no "counterflex" or "rebound".
As I've stated, using a cast/mend either with pull-back or other ways of assisting rebound, is the way I fish except when small close curves indicated.
We could debate what to label pull back forever, since we don't have universally agreed upon definitions. Of course you are right that in increases tension but it also repositions a segment of the line at the same time. Best not to get into that here, since (as you said) this is not a task or test of definitions.
However, at the present time, we are bound to the requirements and Expectations until and unless the exam is changed.
hanks for pointing that out.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] Walter Simbirski :
Hi Gordy,
I haven't seen this mentioned so far - when I first started working on my certifications it was made clear to me
by a few mentors that selection of equipment for the test (rod, line, leader, etc.) was my responsibility and that
it was important to being able to complete the tasks.
Curve casting is about controlling the energy in your cast. "Excess" energy causes the leader/line/fly to kick
over and you have a positive curve. Too little energy and the line never fully unrolls and you end up with a negative
or underpowered curve. Select a wimpy leader with oversized fluff and energy bleeds off making it very difficult to
make a positive curve and at the same time it becomes difficult to develop the delicate touch required to make the
underpowered curves. A bit of advice here is to design and tie your own leaders (we've discussed the formulae in the past)
and use a relatively small piece of casting yarn for the fly. One last "trick" is to soak the yarn in floatant or wet it
(spit will do) prior to the test and you will find that the kick over is much more pronounced.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] Agree.
Up to a point, the greater the mass of your fly, the easier it is to make the curve layout.
Lefty Kreh has taught curve casting for years with his student using a heavy fly such as a popper. Works fine.
To demo that, I often do the same thing. THEN ... I cut off the fly and have the student try to make the curve. The two "extremes" prove your point.
Wimpy leaders and leaders that are very long make it a lot more difficult because of energy dissipation.
Making a curve layout after removing your leader is an eye opener !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] From Peter Morse :
Gordy and group. Giving yourself an obstacle to curve the line around is a great way to learn and teach curve casts. When I teach this I'll stand 20 feet in front of the student and make them curve it around me.
Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] Yes.. Even better to have the students cast around targets or obstacles at different distances.
|