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Hi Gordy,
Nice thoughts from Gary Eaton. What are your thoughts on the wording to be made clearer? I am a bit confused even though we watched Joe and Dusty go over this last year in Helen.
Here is why, the expectations claim to opt for anchor or no anchor? This implies to me that one would be static and one dynamic? In other words, how do you setup, stop as is stated, and still have no anchor?
The other thing which seems a bit confusing is even the mention of a D loop. V and D loops in my mind are both dynamic for the most part. Sounds like this task should just state the line hanging straight down from the rod tip if you have a pause (stop) as it is worded. I know what they want from the MCI task when watching Dusty, Jay Clark, and Joe last year but the way this is stated I think it could be made clearer so there is no confusion.
Another thing to add to Gary's notes from above would be to teach the thrust forward of the hand during delivery (stabbing the rod out toward the direction of target for long roll cast). Another trick since it is dragged slowly to position is to reach as far back then move into a high position. The higher you start the longer stroke you can make-or stated another way the longer you can accelerate. This thrust move for me anyway is a necessity for long distance if I am to truly perform it with no dynamic loops in back (which is how I interpret it for testing).
Not sure about the topic of having the loop at head height as Gary mentioned-is that a new requirement being suggested?
Nice work! Hope you nail some BIG tarpon this week. We are into our spring hatches now pretty big which is a nice change from all of the cold this winter. Take care, mac
Mac Brown
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[GH] Mac,
One of the reasons we're doing this (as you know) is to try to make things as clear as possible.
Unfortunately, we have lots of things to consider, especially if roll cast tasks are not done on water.
My thoughts :
1.) "D-loop" : I have always looked at a D-loop as an active "D" shaped line behind the caster. Since we don't have an official definition for it, we borrow the term from the Spey Casting lexicon. Since when Spey casting, the D-loop is an active segment of line behind the caster, it then becomes a bit of a stretch to call the dead line draped down from the rod tip a "D-loop"...however, that's what we do.
Making the roll cast with that dead back loop which has zero momentum is much more difficult that when it has at least a tiny bit of momentum for the reason that tension in the system has gone.
I look at the back loop (active or static) as the primary initial load for the cast. The so-called, "anchor" is needed, but I think that is so that the back loop can have something with sufficient inertia to help form tension for more efficient load.
As Lefty Kreh wrote, "...Don't delay beginning the forward cast, as the D loop will develop slack. " * In my opinion, he's right; it just drapes down blowing about in the wind or with a wind from behind, can end up with most of it at or in front of the caster. A compromise at best when casting with no wind. The only way I can see of doing it that way is when fishing while timing a repetitive rise in a feeding lane.
Mac, I think the idea of "anchor or no anchor" may refer to the idea that the candidate may make the roll cast on grass with or without a roll cast tool or someone standing on the fly/leader. Unfortunately, a good candidate may have learned to do it just fine with only the "stick" between grass and leader .... but that may not pass if the examiners insist on the set-up form being a classic one for doing it on water.
2.) Anchor : The inertia to which i referred is formed by the fly/leader and a segment of fly line on the water. That has been defined by Simon Gawesworth as, "Anchor. The part of the fly line that is lying on the water at the end of the backstroke and before the forward stroke starts. Also called line stick and grip." or (from his glossary) "The fly line touching the water at the end of the backstroke, creating enough tension for the D loop to form and not jump out of the water." **
Al Buhr's Glossary of Terms defines anchor in a manner which fits my concept of loading : " Anchor The fly, the leader and the front tip of the line, by being secured on the water surface, provides the tension or resistance needed to form the "D" loop and provide loading for the forward cast." ***
Of course, the problem when testing on grass or a gym floor is multifold when we consider the anchor and its placement.
Some examiners have (I'm told) insisted that the anchor be placed just as the caster would place it when casting on water in order for the "roll cast setup" to pass. That makes it almost impossible to make the cast unless tension is set up in the system either by allowing some residual momentum for the back loop, or lots of line static on the ground behind...
Or -
The use of contrivances such as a grass leader, the various roll cast tools to hold the leader/fly or the sometimes most unreliable method of having someone stand on the leader. This evidently lead to the statement : "Allowances will be made if casting on grass - candidate may opt to cast with or without anchoring the leader or use a grass leader."
Variables enter the picture as I teach this on grass in different areas. Some grasses are very different from others in providing needed tension even when a "grass leader" is used.
When Tom White and I gave our Masters Prep Courses, we looked at roll casts being done on grass as requiring a very different set-up than for casts done on water. With lots of experimentation, our candidates got very good at determining the length of line out front and the length of the line behind.
With my present interpretation of Task 6, however, this method won't suffice .... and so it leaves the candidates and examiners with some unanswered questions for roll casts not done on water.
3.) Getting that rod tip way back, for me, works well. for the reasons you point out. I witnessed an examiner flunk a candidate for the form of his roll cast set-up because he felt the rod tip was too far back.
4.) Under, Expectations, : "Consistent loops with the top of the loops no higher than the caster's head" has been questioned. Obviously a different standard for a 5' tall female candidate than for a 6' 7" tall male.
Either way, a low relatively small loop is the best way to go; but the wording leaves some candidates confused. Some ask me, "can I do that with a side arm roll cast to keep it low ?" or "How far down can I crouch to do that"... etc.
(I watched Cathy Beck demonstrating a > 90' low side arm roll cast at the Denver show in 2001.)
If I want to keep that roll cast loop way down low, I do both when fishing.... but I know that is not what most examiners want to see. Also, if the candidate is using a modern fast action fly rod, it is harder to keep that loop low even though a bit easier to make it small. Tom White would sit on the ground and do it that way !
Then we have the statement, "Consistent loops". Some ask what this means, especially since there isn't any false casting when roll casting. One candidate said to me, "Well, we have one forward loop and one back loop ... how can they be consistent ?"
5.) The "forward thrust" works great ! Similar to the Lefty Kreh "wind cast" described by Gary and Jason Borger as a "thrust cast". They didn't write about using it for roll casts .... but it works for that, too. ****
Frankly, I'd be in accord with a requirement that all roll cast tasks be done on water. Having said that, I know this could be a real problem with most of our testing venues.
Gordy
* CASTING WITH LEFTY KREH, by Lefty Kreh,2008, p. 153
** SPEY CASTING, by Simon Gawesworth, 2004, p 279.
*** TWO-HANDED FLY CASTING Spey Casting Techniques, by Al Buhr, 2006, p 77.
**** PRESENTATION, by Gary Borger, 1995, pp. 239-2421
Jason Borger's NATURE OF FLY CASTING, by Jason Borger, 2001, pp. 234-236.
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