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Walter & Group...
[GH] These messages will address the use of different casting planes for accuracy. We'll also discuss the concept of loop formation for Task 11.
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[GH] From Bill Kiester :
Gordy,
I have a slightly different take on using a vertical casting plan. I tell people I am coaching that the vertical plane may work better for them because of the following. If there are no hooks in the cast the fly and line is going to remain it the casting plane. But each cast is going to have a slightly different amount of energy. This means that we don't known exactly where in that casting plane the fly is going to stop. When a vertical casting plane is used we can draw a line between ourselves and the target. We know the fly should land somewhere on that line. If the cast runs out of steam two inches or 2 feet above the ground the fly is going to fall into the target.
If we use a horizontal casting plane the error in the actual stopping point of the fly is going to translate into a displacement right or left and therefore make it more likely that we miss the target. Because I generally cast well off vertical when fishing I find myself hooking to the left sometimes (I am right handed). At this times even though my arm is well out to the side I tell myself to get the rod back into a vertical position.
A mirror experience. I teach a continuing education casting course on the campus of a local junior college. When I started they had a building with mirror window from the top to the ground. A couple of years ago, in their infinite wisdom, they replaced that building with a new building. It has concrete walls with little clear windows. I really miss the great big mirror. I learned a lot about my casting plane from that building.
Bill Keister
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[GH] Bill,
For me, the compromise which works for the distant targets is the use of an off vertical rod plane ... not a horizontal or even off horizontal plane.
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[GH] More on the use of different casting planes for the accuracy tasks. This from Walter Simbirski I have taken the moderator's prerogative of highlighting has last paragraph in red italics :
Gordy,
I'm still not sure from your response that my point is understood. I just want to see if we are actually saying
the same things but differently.
Using a horizontal casting plane with open stance is the best way to dial in distance (explanation to follow).
A vertical casting plane is the best way to get left/right accuracy and to make the presentation cast. So what you
want to do is to start out in the horizontal plane to get your distance and then switch to the vertical plane before
presenting the fly.
There are a few reasons for using the horizontal plane to dial in the distance. The first is that it takes your eye
as far out of line with the target and fly as possible. This removes the need to rely on depth perception
to judge distance. It also gives the largest possible base to the triangle formed by eye/fly/target. Depth perception
is the result of binocular vision which forms a triangle between our two eyes and the target. One way to improve
depth perception is to increase the separation between our eyes, i.e. create a larger triangle base for triangulation,
which is what artillery range finders do.
Another advantage to using a horizontal casting plane to dial in distance is that there is little reason to hover the
fly when you do this. One of the reasons for hovering the fly with a closed stance and vertical casting plan that
your view of the fly is time limited. You make your forward false cast, wait for the fly to enter your field of view,
acquire the target, make a lot of complex judgements in your head about a fast moving target in a few tenth of
a second, and then the fly is gone again. Our field if view is actually narrower vertically than it is horizontaso a
vertical casting plane actually gives us less time to do these things. In addition, with the vertical casting plane
we need the fly to be in the region where we have 3D vision in order to make depth of field judgements.
In the horizontal casting plane (with open stance) we are able to use our wider field of view to watch the fly
for a larger percentage of the time. In addition, since we are less reliant on the section of our field of view that
is 3D, we can keep both the fly and the target in view throughout most (or even all) of the cast and get useful
information the whole time so you find there is usually no need to hover the fly.
When I have the distance dialed in (irregardless of whether I used a vertical, off vertical, or horizontal plane to
establish the distance) I use a vertical (or near vertical) casting plane and make some false casts to adjust
trajectory and stop, get my left/right accuracy dialed in, and then make the presentation cast.
Casting in the horizontal plane has some issues with respect to left/accuracy. The first is where is the fly
actually going to end up when I make the presentation? Anyone who has practised casting through hoops
knows that you don't aim the fly at the center of the hoop, you aim the point of your loop at the center of the
hoop. The rod leg indicates where the fly will end up when we reach lsp (line straight position - yet another
acronym that I just invented) but, again, we don't use the rod leg as our aiming device when casting through
hoops. So we have one issue and that is that the size of our loop can affect where the fly finally lands when
we are casting in the horizontal plane. I know we get better with practice but it is one more judgement call
we have to make.
Another issue with the horizontal plane is that if our power application is not precise the fly may kick over
after lsp or the line may not reach lsp. Again, this improves with practice, but even with practice a few wind
gusts can easily cause us to misjudge the power application.
Using the vertical casting plane for presentation eliminates these issues. I adjust my trajectory so the line
unrolls just about the target so I don't need to worry about too much power application and I use excess
power just in case the wind does gust at the wrong moment. I also don't care about rod leg/fly leg/loop
positioning and where the fly is eventually going to land. As long as the legs are parallel and vertical or
near vertical the left/right thing is a non issue.
When demonstrating I demonstrate a vertical/near vertical approach with tricks for hovering the fly
and the importance of trajectory. When teaching I demonstrate and teach both keeping in the
near vertical realm, keeping in the horizontal realm, and combining the two so that people see
and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each. When fishing I do whatever happens to
fit the moment partly because I can and partly because the fish usually aren't watching.
Gordy - thanks for taking valuable time to read through my lengthy dribble. Are we both thinking and
saying the same thing? I know that Joan Wulff's books talk about triangulation and off vertical planes to dial
in distance but, at least from the pictures in her books, I am left with the impression that we are not talking
about going too far off vertical and certainly not horizontal. Your response to my previous email gives the
impression that demonstrating loops is more important than demonstrating the best way to achieve distance accuracy when teaching accuracy (notice that I say "impression" because I know that you didn't mean it that way). My real concern is that I have met a few masters (I have to admit I used to think the sameway because nobody showed or explained differently and I only discovered differently by accident) that the use of a horizontal casting plane at any time during the accuracy task demonstrates that the candidate either has poor form or doesn't understand accuracy.
Thanks
Walter
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Walter,
I understand you very well. Now let's cut to the chase :-
1. Right to left accuracy is best achieved with a vertical casting plane.
2. Distance accuracy is best achieved with an off vertical to off horizontal casting plane.
3. # 1. applies well for close targets.
4. # 2 applies better for distant targets.
5. The use of a completely horizontal casting plane introduces the danger of accidentally curving or hooking the cast (as Bill Keister points this out in his message, above) and missing the target.
6. This use of a horizontal casting plane makes it more difficult to teach the application of trajectory change; an important concept for students to know when going from one target distance to another.
7. NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT ! You have opened a subject dear to my heart when you make the statement about demonstrating loops being more important than demonstrating the best way to achieve distance accuracy when teaching accuracy. (I highlighted this in your message).
Frankly, it is my private opinion (shared, however, by many examiners) that the demonstration of nice neat loops for accuracy casting should not be included. When I do require this on an exam, I'm simply following the wording of the task... and biting my tongue as I do it.
Over the years, I spent my time testing under BOG lead examiners who actually stated to their candidates words to the effect : " As long as you can hit the targets, I don't care about the loops." Others simply ignore the loops. One lead examiner said to me, "Well they don't make an issue of the loops at the ACA competitions, so I don't when I test." While I agree in principle with them, I feel I have an obligation to follow the intent of the task wording, so I don't do that. Another point is that in actual practice, not all examiners are on the same page with regard to loop judgement for this task.
I've witnessed the dismay of a candidate who hit each and every target right on the nose the first time... and then is told he flunked because of his loops. Kind of hard to understand, in my book.
What about when I teach students accuracy casting ? I do care about the loops, but only to the extent that the student can control them well enough to make the distances and accurately present to the targets. Having them concentrate on their back cast loops is counterproductive as it takes the emphasis off what is really important. They immediately lose accuracy if they turn to look at them, as one would expect.
I teach the need for tight well controlled loops needed for the specific purpose of drilling the fly right to a target for accuracy in high winds. That is an important fishing application.
Gordy
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