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Walter & Group...
[GH] From Bob Stouffer :
Mr. Diaz. Thank you for the positive criticism. Glad to be here.
Bob Stouffer.
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[GH] From Rene Hesse :
Hello Gordy,
I would like to expound on the wind cast discussion by adding the loop speed, the fly leg speed and the fact that
we need to achieve the highest line speed in the fly leg to beat the wind by not shooting line.
It has been touched on for example, 'don't give back on the haul'.
I always like to point out to the caster the
line should not be 'shot' on the part of the cast in to the wind.
Then explain that we can increase the speed of the fly leg
part of the loop by not releasing the line on a shoot, thus allowing all of the energy to transfer down the loop pulling
the fly along rather than trying to use some (1/2) of the energy to pull the rod leg of the line out.
Short answer: Don't shoot line on the cast that is going 'in to' the wind. Extend your line to the distance needed
on the down wind part of the cast. Then deliver the fly in to the wind with out shooting.
I'm glad to hear your feeling better Gordy,
Rene
humorous side note; I scheduled a 'wind cast casting session' for my casting group the night of all the tornados but had
to cancel the class due to wind!
Rene
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[GH] Rene,
Apparently your lesson plan didn't include, "Tornado casting " !
Brings me to a flash back. Years ago, My Dad, Bob Andreae and I were out in the Content Keys. We'd had a great morning permit fishing. A tornado showed up, so we high-tailed it for safety and tied up the skiff to a mangrove tree on the shore of the Key. The tornado, rapidly changed direction and came right toward us. Sunk my skiff, tore down the tree to which it was tethered, and threw Bob and me right out of the skiff. My Dad was trapped in the sunken skiff with the toppled tree trunk jamming his head against the console wheel. After the storm, Bob and I spent hours with knives cutting that tree trunk to free Pop. The tide went out and we bailed out the skiff. Didn't get back home for many hours. Pop Hill was fine.
Re. "Don't give back on the haul": I do get my best results when casting into the wind when I give back on my back cast haul. Rather than "giving back" on my delivery cast, I release line if I'm electing to shoot. (More on that, below.)
Re. Loop speed. First, let me say that I think you did the right thing to teach your students to cast into the wind with no line shoot. Now let's see why that is so as we revisit a few basic formulae from our past messages (Refinements courtesy of Aitor Coteron ) :
V1: velocity of the fly leg
V2: velocity of the rod leg
VL: speed of loop turnover
Vav: speed of loop advance (in respect of the caster)
Without shooting line:
VL = 1/2 V1
V2=0
VL =Vav
Shooting line:
VL = 1/2 (V1-V2)
Vav= 1/2 (V1-V2)+V2
Triple haul:
V2= now has a negative value!
VL = 1/2 (V1+V2)
Vav= 1/2 (V1+V2)-V2
Note that V2 = zero with no line shoot. It gains positive value when shooting line until and unless we apply the "check haul" portion of a triple haul when it becomes a negative value !
When you apply actual numbers, you cannot escape the fact that with no wind, the greatest LOOP SPEED is gained by shooting line.
( If Vi is 80 m/sec and V2 is 20 m/sec, then Vav when not shooting line = 40 m/sec. When shooting line, Vav increases to 50 m/sec.)
Theoretically, it would seem that the same thing would pertain when casting into the wind. HOWEVER :
When casting into a strong wind, things change by virtue of the fact that the shot forward loop is resisted by a rapidly moving "wall of air". This makes the size and shape of the loop even more important than ever. The effect of wind resistance increases dramatically as we deviate from a very small pointed loop with reasonably parallel legs.
All this makes great mental gymnastics .... food for discourse and cogitation. In my real World of fishing in high winds, however, it remains true that I get my longest casts into a strong wind with high line and loop speed, as tight a loop as I can muster, and a line shoot with a thrust cast.* (Lefty Kreh "Wind Cast"). As I do this, I try to do what I learned from Lefty by not using super force on the delivery cast; rather concentrate on my loop size and increasing my haul speed. ("Let your haul be your accelerator", Lefty). **
Basically, the Thrust Cast is made with very high line speed and an arm "thrust" such that you don't enter the stop sequence until you "run out of arm" ending with a straight elbow. I teach it only to advanced students who have good control. Earlier students take the risk of elbow injury.
I have noted that many students of casting tend to overpower their casts when they try to shoot line into a strong wind. The want to overcome the enemy (wind) with brute force. As they do that, they drop the rod tip enough to widen the loop. That is self defeating as the wide loop tends to be blown back toward the caster. They compound the problem by concentrating on the rod hand force and tend to make a wimpy, ineffective haul.
Conclusions: 1.The stronger the head wind, the more loop size sensitive the cast.
2. Casters who widen their loops when casting into the wind as they shoot line, will do better by avoiding the line shoot.
3. When teaching students basic wind casting techniques, it is best to have them avoid shooting line (advanced students excepted ).
"When windy, the pointed mini loop ROCKS !"
* PRESENTATION by Gary Borger, by Gary Borger, 1995, pp. 239-241
** CASTING with LEFTY KREH, by Lefty Kreh, 2008, pp. 288-289. (Note his line shoot in the photo's)
Gordy
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