Task 18 Discussion 5

Walter & Group...

[GH]  Mac Brown looks at the big picture :

Hi Gordy,

I like your breakdown into advantages and disadvantages for this task.  Kudos to you for suggesting a change to the present lingo. It has taken on the appearance that it is the grail of fly casting when in reality it may only be some of the time-not all of the time.

We could list many disadvantages of having them parallel for setting a dynamic D loop, lazy underpowered back cast for obstacles, etc... as we all know. To me it seems important to talk about varying the throttle of applied force and the amount of tension we use in doing so. 

Yes, there are times when it is advantageous to have them parallel -no argument there. I think what is missing in a big way for casting is the concept that a line that is in motion has varying amounts of tension that we use to make casts-all sorts of them. To the comments on a non-loop -I for one have a hard time seeing that in reality. A huge 60' circle by example still has a rod and fly leg  -just break it down to the middle of the circle. 

Speaking of circles, the more spirals we implement to the line yields greater tension overall to make something happen on the stream (your control becomes higher of the overall line and uses less space when need as opposed to the language of parallel legs). 

As with all things, there is a time and a place for these advantages/disadvantages on the stream. It would be a mistake to disregard these all into the world of spey and think that single handed casters adhere only to linear rules. I say this because all of the mechanics end up being the same. 

Great thread Gordy!

Mac

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[GH]  From Guy Manning :

Gordy writes:  "I see the loop plane largely determined by the casting plane (rod plane)."

 

For the most common instances yes. Though, there are ways to cast using a curved rod tip path that cause the loops to be out of plane with the rod plane. Jeff Barefoot presented an article about this a number of years ago.  http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/loopcontrol.shtml

 

 

Guy Manning

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[GH]  Guy,

YES !!!!!

Jeff came here to visit me and we spent lots of time on this.  It was a contentious issue as several of the Masters were reluctant to accept the concept at the time.  Some felt that this was the product of a "last second change of casting plane" that was hard to detect.

That is one of the reasons I used the word, "largely".

The discussion on Task 18 was already getting so complicated, that I didn't want to add too much more which might have diluted the main topic.

Thanks for pointing that out. 

Best,

Gordy

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[GH]  From John Field :

Hi Gordy,

Below you mentioned, ”Interesting that I couldn't find a discussion on parallel loop legs in the fly casting literature I consulted let alone one with diagrams.” I think Peter Morse eluded in his contribution below to The Essentials of Fly Casting, by Bill and Jay Gammel, ©1993 FFF, Essential 3., pages 6-9, in which I found enough references to prepare myself for this task. Below I simplistically paraphrase those passages:

Parallel Legs: You will cast loops with parallel legs if your rod-tip travels in a straight path and your rod tracks in one plane. In the vertical plane, the rod tip can travel in three paths; straight, concave or convex. You must use adequate rod arc, or stroke length. In the horizontal plane, the rod can either travel straight, left or right. The rod must stay in one plane with the back cast 180° away from the forward cast.

I satisfied my erudite examiners last January with an expanded explanation of this, accompanied by a three dimensional demonstration with a fly line and leader.

Thanks GH,

John Field

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[GH]  John,

Thanks for pointing that out.  Frankly, I had not consulted that FFF booklet for the simple reason I have lent my copy out to a Master candidate I'm currently mentoring.

Some confusion with the written word might still exist until we realize that with the statement, "in the vertical plane" and "in the horizontal plane" an assumption is made that the caster is casting in the vertical (or nearly vertical) plane.

Of course, reasonably good loop leg alignment is just as important when the caster uses his default off-vertical casting plane (as I and most salt water casters do) or even an off-horizontal casting plane.  It's just that the word descriptions and diagrams depicting parallel and non-parallel loop legs when casting in the vertical casting plane are easier to understand.

So we are really describing the alignment of loop legs in the vertical and horizontal planes during the same cast.

We could teach it that way, and then say, "Now if we tilt the whole thing to one side or the other, nothing really changes."

Fortunately, Ally's diagrams should put all that confusion to rest. "A picture worth a thousand words......"

This is just another reason for us to have casting and layout diagrams for our Master Study Guides.

Gordy

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[GH]  From Ward Nicholas :

Thanks guys

This all makes sense, I do like the diagrams!

Ward

 

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