Walter & Group...
As most of you who have been with the Group know, I send a number of answer responses to our little quizes for a specific reason.
Seeing how others answer questions correctly while using different words and word pictures is an educational method which serves to solidify the concepts represented by the questions and answers into memory. This can yield better in-depth understanding of the topic.
Below, I chose Jim Laing's answer sheet to do three things. 1. Be highly critical of his answers (though most were correct) and, 2. Use one tiny error which I think most Master candidates would have made as a spring board for discussion of an interresting concept. 3. Take one answer about which I wasn't certain and use actual observation of my own casts to help determine if he was right.
If I receive 50 or more answer messages, obviously, I can't send all of them .... so I pick the ones which have mostly correct answers using different language for the answers as well as one or two which allow productive discussion.
Gordy
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From Jim Higgins. My comments in his answer text in BLACK CAPS ..... G :
QUESTIONS:
1.) Give us your
description of DRIFT. After the stop the rod hand repositions in the direction of the
moving line
2.) What (if
anything) can it accomplish ?
Allows the next casting stroke to be
longer
3.) When, during the casting stroke, is the rod tip moving at its fastest rate ? At the stop
4.) At what
point do you think loop formation begins ?At the point
the speed of the line overtakes the speed of the rod tip ? near
RSP
5.) What is
your idea of the meaning of the term, CREEP ? After the stop
the rod hand repositions in the opposite direction of the moving
line
6.) Do you
think CREEP is always a fault ?
Not if the next cast requires a shorter casting
stroke.
7.) What
happens when a caster creeps ?
The next casting stroke is shortened ? may cause
a tailing loop
8.) You have taken
a high speed video of you friend's forward cast. You picked out one frame
which showed the point of maximum load. How did you pick out that
particular frame ? Maximum bend in the
rod
9.) When (if ever)
would you purposely cast with different timing of the forward cast from that of
the back cast.
1. Anytime you have different rod loadings
- casting into the wind
10.) You just made
a forward cast .... but you didn't stop. Rather, you simply slowed your
rod.
a. Will your rod unload anyway ?
Yes
b. Was
it possible to form a loop ?
Yes
11.) What is meant
by the term COUNTERFLEX ? When the rod tip goes beyond RSP because of the rods
momentum
12.) Is it the
same thing as REBOUND ? No ?
rebound is from the end of counterflex back to RSP and
beyond
13.) You just made
a high trajectory back cast. Using exactly the same rod plane, you made a
forward cast with trajectory parallel to the water. What happened to the
loop ? You
get a tailing loop ? less than 180 degrees between front and back
casts
14.) Your casting stroke and casting arc are too short for the amount of line carried out of the rod tip. Describe the resulting loop. You will get a tailing loop because of the concave path of the rod tip
TRUE. NOW IF I ASKED YOU THAT QUESTION AND YOU GAVE THAT ANSWER ON AN ORAL EXAM IT WOULD LEAD ME TO ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN HOW THIS YIELDS THE CONCAVE ROD TIP PATH. YOU MIGHT HAVE KNOWN THAT AND USED YOUR ANSWER TO LEAD ME AS AN EXAMINER TO ASK THE NEXT SET OF QUESTIONS THE ANSWERS TO WHICH YOU KNEW VERY WELL. A GOOD PLOY WHEN TAKING AN ORAL EXAM. G.
15.)
You purposely made a forward cast with increased casting arc and resulting
convex path of the rod tip at the beginning of your stroke, then accomplished an
almost straight line path of the rod
tip until the conclusion of your stroke as you unloaded the rod with the rod tip
a short distance from the oncoming line.
a.
What happens to your loop ?
Wide loop ? the fly leg is thrown high opening
the loop
b. When (if ever) would you do that ?
Casting with a wind from your
back
16.) At another time and under different conditions, you
made a cast with an almost straight line path of the rod tip until the end of
your stroke at which point you applied enough convexity of your rod tip path to
unload the rod with the tip well below the oncoming
line.
a. What loop resulted ? Wide
loop ? the rod leg of the loop is pulled down opening
the loop
b. When, (if ever) would you do that ? Casting with a
weighted fly
17.) What is likely to happen if you apply a spike of
power to your haul very early in the stroke ? Tailing
loop
18.) Why ? The spike of power
increases the bend in the rod which is not maintained so you get a concaved path
of the rod tip
19.) Your new casting student asks your advice on what
rod to purchase for his lessons. He's been told about fast action, medium
action, and slow action rods. What do you advise him ? Medium Action
Rod ? Depending on the expected use of the rod after the class the medium action
may be obtained by over lining a fast action rod or under lined a slow action
rod to achieve the medium action.
20.) Give your reason (s) for this decision. Fast action rods are usually harder for the student to feel and slow action rods require longer than normal casting strokes which beginning students will find a problem.
AS AN EXAMINER, I'D THEN PROBABLY ASK YOU WHAT OFTEN HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE A NEW CASTER LEARNING WITH A SOFT (SLOW ACTION) ROD AND THE MECHANISM BEHIND THAT RESULT. G.
VERY GOOD ANSWERS, JIM .
GORDY
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From Jim Laing.
My comments in his answer text in CAPS. Note the brevity of most BUT NOT ALL of his answers. Here, I'll take the position of being highly critical of his answers even though most of them are very good. G .
QUESTIONS:
1.) Give us your description of DRIFT. Repositioning of fly rod after loop formation.
OK.... NOW WHAT ABOUT MY SLOWLY REPOSITIONING THE FLY ROD AFTER LOOP FORMATION IN THE DIRECTION OF THE NEXT CAST ? WILL THAT RESULT IN LENGTHENING THE AVAILABLE STROKE ? (SEE QUESTION 5.) G.
2.) What (if anything) can it accomplish ? Lengthen casting stroke.
3.) When, during the casting stroke, is the rod tip moving at its fastest rate ? Just prior to RSP.
4.) At what point do you think loop formation begins ? When line speed surpasses tip speed.
CORRECT. NOW IS THAT AT OR NEAR THE ROD STRAIGHT POSITION ?
5.) What is your idea of the meaning of the term, CREEP ? Moving the rod in the direction of the cast without any benefit of rod load.
OK. UP TO THIS POINT YOU GAVE "SHORT ANSWERS" FULLY EXPECTING YOUR EXAMINER TO FOLLOW WITH MORE DETAILS. G
6.) Do you think CREEP is always a fault ? Yes, I don't see any benefit of moving the rod forward without adding load.
YOU GAVE THE ANSWER WITH THE WORD, "YES". YOUR NEXT STATEMENT OF OPINION WHICH FOLLOWS ISN'T NEEDED UNLESS YOU WERE ASKED FOR IT. G.
7.) What happens when a caster creeps ? Stroke length/ arc is decreased (too short for amount of line carried), resulting in a tailing loop.
8.) You have taken a high speed video of you friend's forward cast. You picked out one frame which showed the point of maximum load. How did you pick out that particular frame ? Distance between rod tip and butt are at shortest length, often when angle of rotation is approaching 90 degrees in relation to the path the rod hand takes during the casting stroke.
YES. WHEN THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE ROD TIP AND THE ROD BUTT IS SHORTEST, IT IS BECAUSE THE ROD IS AT MAXIMUM BEND (LOAD).
MAKES ME WONDER IF YOU MEAN THAT AT THAT POINT THE BUTT SECTION OF THE FLY ROD WILL BE APPROXIMATELY AT 90 DEGREES WITH RESPECT TO THE TARGET (?) YOUR FIRST STATEMENT IS CORRECT AND WOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH, I THINK. G.
9.) When (if ever) would you purposely cast with different timing of the forward cast from that of the back cast. Wind directly into the FC or BC may have an impact on timing.
10.) You just made a forward cast .... but you didn't stop. Rather, you simply slowed your rod.
a. Will your rod unload anyway ? Yes
b. Was it possible to form a loop ? Yes
11.) What is meant by the term COUNTERFLEX ? Distance the rod tip flexes immediately after loop formation.
12.) Is it the same thing as REBOUND ? No, rebound is the distance from maximum counterflex back to RSP.
DOES THE ROD TIP DURING REBOUND ALWAYS GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO RSP ? FRANKLY, I DIDN'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT. SO I MADE A FEW CASTS WHILE FISHING TODAY WITH THIS IN MIND. IT DID APPEAR THAT YOU WERE CORRECT AS BEST I COULD TELL AS I WATCHED MY ROD TIP. G.
13.) You just made a high trajectory back cast. Using exactly the same rod plane, you made a forward cast with trajectory parallel to the water. What happened to the loop ? Tail
14.) Your casting stroke and casting arc are too short for the amount of line carried out of the rod tip. Describe the resulting loop. Tail
15.) You purposely made a forward cast with increased casting arc and resulting convex path of the rod tip at the beginning of your stroke, then accomplished an almost straight line path of the rod tip until the conclusion of your stroke as you unloaded the rod with the rod tip a short distance from the oncoming line.
a. What happens to your loop ? Loop begins tight, but finishes open.
IF I WERE EXAMINING YOU ON THE FIELD, ROD IN HAND, AT THAT POINT I'D ASK YOU TO DO IT AND THEN GIVE ME YOUR ANSWER. G.
b. When (if ever) would you do that ? Useful when conditions require a straight layout with slack introduced near the fly.
INTERESTING ANSWER. THAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DO THIS WITH NO WIND OR WIND FROM IN FRONT. MOST FELT THAT THIS CAST WOULD BE USED WHEN CASTING WITH WIND FROM BEHIND. THAT WOULD USUALLY RESULT IN THE WIND AIDING BY HELPING TO "KITE" THE WIDE LOOP WITH THE ERECT FLY LEG. IN THAT CASE, THE WIND WOULD HELP STRAIGHTEN OUT THE LAYOUT OF BOTH LINE AND LEADER. G.
16.) At another time and under different conditions, you made a cast with an almost straight line path of the rod tip until the end of your stroke at which point you applied enough convexity of your rod tip path to unload the rod with the tip well below the oncoming line.
a. What loop resulted ? Loop begins more open, and finishes tight in a downward direction(rat snout).
MOST ANSWERED THAT THIS CAST WOULD YIELD A CONTROLLED WIDE LOOP WHEN NEEDED FOR CASTING A WEIGHTED FLY.
YOUR ANSWER IS NOT WRONG, HOWEVER. THE CONVEXITY OF THE ROD TIP AT THE END OF THE STROKE WILL ALSO LIKELY PRODUCE MORE COUNTERFLEX SO THAT THE LOOP WILL BE WIDER AT THAT POINT THAN IT WILL BE IF THE LOOP SPEED IS SUFFICIENT TO HAVE THE "COUNTERFLEX DIP" OF THE ROD LEG STRAIGHTEN OUT. PAUL ARDEN HAS DESCRIBED THAT AS "SUCKING IT UP" DUE TO THE MOMENTUM OF THE RAPIDLY TRAVELING LOOP. G.
b. When, (if ever) would you do that ? Any time conditions require the fly be driven into the target, as opposed to dropping or hovering above.
IF YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT CONVEXITY OF ROD TIP PATH TO OPEN UP THE LOOP FOR CASTING A WEIGHTED FLY, THEN IT WILL NOT BE TIGHT ENOUGH FOR DRIVING IT INTO THE TARGET OR INTO A HEAD WIND EFFICIENTLY.
HOWEVER, IF YOU CONTROL THAT CONVEXITY TO THE POINT THAT IT IS VERY LIMITED AND VERY CLOSE TO THE ONCOMING LINE AS IT OVERTAKES THE ROD TIP AT RSP THEN IT CAN YIELD THE LOOP YOU DESCRIBE.... ESPECIALLY IF DONE WITH HIGH TIP SPEED. G.
17.) What is likely to happen if you apply a spike of power to your haul very early in the stroke ? The early "spike" of power will result in a drop, then rise in the tip path very early in the casting stroke resulting in a tailing loop. The top leg of the loop drop below the bottom leg, then rise back above - further* from the caster.
* JIM ... YOU DID FINE UNTIL YOU WENT ONE STEP BEYOND WHAT WAS NEEDED FOR YOUR ANSWER AND THEN SHOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT WITH YOUR LAST STATEMENT.
BRUCE RICHARDS HAS POINTED OUT THAT WHAT YOU DO DURING THE STROKE MOSTLY AFFECTS THE TOP (FLY) LEG OF THE LOOP AND WHAT YOU DO AFTER THE STROKE (FOLLOWING RSP) MOSTLY AFFECTS THE BOTTOM (ROD) LEG.
THIS HELPS EXPLAIN WHY A MEND WHICH IS MADE AFTER THE CAST TO ALTER THE POSITION OF THE ROD LEG OF THE LOOP WILL BE FARTHER OUT FROM THE CASTER WHEN DONE EARLY AND CLOSER TO HIM WHEN DONE LATER.
BUT A TAIL WHICH RESULTS FROM ACTION DURING THE CASTING STROKE THUS ALTERING THE FLY LEG OF THE LOOP OCCURS CLOSER TO THE CASTER WHEN THE FAULT IS MADE EARLIER AND FARTHER FROM THE CASTER WHEN IT OCCURS LATER.
USING THAT INFORMATION, TOM WHITE DEVELOPED AN UNCANNY ABILITY TO PLACE HIS TAILING LOOP UPON COMMAND NEAR THE ROD TIP, WAY OUT AT THE LEADER OR IN THE MIDDLE. DESPITE LOTS OF PRACTICE AND HIS HELP I NEVER GOT VERY GOOD AT DOING THAT.
I POSED THAT PARADOX TO A GROUP OF MASTERS AND CBOG'S AT THE FFF CONCLAVE AT IDAHO FALLS A FEW YEARS AGO. THE ONLY TWO WHO GOT IT RIGHT WERE BRUCE AND TOM. (I WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN THE ANSWER IF I HADN'T BEEN WORKING ON IT WITH TOM.)
FASCINATING STUFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!! G.
18.) Why ? Too much power is added abruptly, early in the stroke.
TRUE. NOW SUPPOSE YOU WERE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THAT POWER AND THE ACCELERATION IT PROVIDED ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO THE STOP ? G.
19.) Your new casting student asks your advice on what rod to purchase for his lessons. He's been told about fast action, medium action, and slow action rods. What do you advise him ? Medium-Fast
20.) Give your reason (s) for this decision. Slower action rods require longer, slower casting strokes and with a beginner the lengthened stroke and added time increase opportunity to introduce faults.
I'M SURE YOU WOULD KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHICH FAULTS AS WELL AS THE ONE MOST COMMON AND
THE REASON FOR IT.
GOOD SHOW ! YOUR ANSWERS MADE US THINK.
GORDY