Walter & Group...
From Pete Greenan in answer to Lewis' request for someone to study with who is a salt water fly fisherman :
Here are just a few additional questions asked by Rick Whorwood:-
21. - What is the primary function of the rear taper of a Spey line ? Mending/control, smoothness,(transition between running line and belly)
22 - Which is better, a long rear taper or a short one ? In general a short rear taper.
23 - Is it necessary to have a rear taper on a Spey line ? Generally yes, there are exceptions. ("Spey Lines" can be a multiplicity of line types/designs.
24 - Can you think of any advantage to using a shooting head rather than a full Spey line ? Yes, less back space/room required, distance with less effort/efficiency, lighter reel/outfit, versatile/interchangeable heads for varying conditions, less fatiguing, easier to change direction.
25 - Do you know of any group of Spey fishermen who are known for cutting off the rear taper of their Spey lines ? Folks who build/customize shooting heads. "Skagit/NW casters were noted for this approach.
26 - In general, how are Spey lines rated ? AFFTA line weight standards. Head, short, medium and long belly. Head lengths of 30-50 ft, 50-60ft, 60-70ft, 70 plus ft
Kirk~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Ally Gowans helps us with this message. It contains a mountain of information ! If you ever plan to go further with your knowledge of Spey casting and fishing, you will consider archiving this one ! :
Hi
Gordy,
I have commented on the
Spey quiz questions. Due to the group?s reluctance to answer the quiz I have
used this exercise to pass on some tips, either that or I?m just not smart
enough to give to really good short answers! I concentrated on Jim Bass?s
answers because he made a real good attempt, then I picked out some of Jim
Laing?s answers to make additional comments and of course answered his question
to me on Single Spey angle change and then I reviewed Jim Penrod?s response but
didn?t find anything more that I needed to say.
Hope that you and the
group find this helpful.
Spey
lines
1 - Generally speaking what types of lines are
not suitable for Spey casting? Short belly lines without the weight to
properly load the rod.
Good answer, belly length is important and absolute minimum is
generally considered to be 3 x rod length. Line profile is also important eg a
level line or a WF line with a reverse tapered head (weight concentrated at the
front of the line) or a regular 30 ft shooting head would not be
ideal.
2 - Generally speaking what
types of lines are commonly used for Spey casting? Lines with enough weight
to load the rod. Short belly Spey lines minimum ( length 55?) Mid belly (length
65?) Long belly (length 75?). Most spey lines floating, intermediate, Sink
Tip or Full Sinking. Skagit Ines short but have the
weight.
Lines with enough weight to load a rod are necessary for all forms of
casting but I know where you?re coming from and sometimes a line size heavier
than that indicated on a rod are better for Spey casting.
3 - Why are those listed in (1)
unsuitable and why are those listed in (2) suitable? 1.The lines can?t
load the rod because the weight they afford the ?D? Loop is not enough to load
the rod. 2. These lines have the gram weight, while in the ?D? Loop, to load the
rod.
Setting aside the rod loading issue a good Spey or roll casting line
puts a significant proportion of the line mass into the D loop, this has to gain
sufficient inertia for casting and a longer front taper helps this by presenting
less friction and mass as the D loop lifts from the surface. In other words the
main casting mass is arranged to be concentrated in the top half of the D
loop.
4 - Recommend the head (front
taper + main mass (belly) + back taper) length to rod length for a promising
student? 65? head length /w rod of 14? or
15?.
That?s what I would say!
5 - How much floating line
(multiple of rod length) can be comfortably aerialised into a 'D' loop with a
long belly Spey line, single Spey cast and 45 degree angle change?
Four
to five rod lengths. You must be able to lift some times as much as 75? of line
off the water. You need a long stroke to accomplish this
cast.
Good answer!
6 - As (5) for a Double Spey
cast with a 90 deg angle change? The change in angle or type of the cast should
not change the four to five rod length of line that can be
cast.
It?s more difficult to contain as much line in a D loop formed from a
?sustained? or ?picked up? anchor than it is from a dynamic or ?dropped? anchor
so generally speaking the maximum amount of line that can be comfortably
contained in the D loop will be less than for the single Spey. I note that this
was recognized in the answer to question 7!
7 - How do the answers given in
(5) and (6) vary for the following conditions:
a) - Standing on a
casting platform? Both should be very easy.
Provided that the platform is not too high it might be possible to
make slightly larger loops than normal.
b) - Wading ankle deep?
Both
should be relatively easy.
This is the easiest situation.
c) - Wading up to waist level? This
is the
most difficult casting because of the restriction of the height of the rod
out of the water when the cast is made. The double Spey and 90deg. change should
make the cast even more difficult.
Water above elbow depth is when casting really starts to get
difficult but even at waist level the amount of line that its possible to
contain in the D loop will be reduced. In practical terms this means that an
extra wading step depth may not be
worthwhile!
8 - What can be done to
increase the length of line aerialised in a 'D' loop for a Single Spey cast and
what is likely to deteriorate during the casting sequence as this length is
increased? Adding energy to the ?D? Loop. You would more than likely cause
a problem with the anchor placement on the cast and have line stick on the
water could both be problems.
Good recognition of the likely problems! The usual way to increase
the size of the D loop is to start with an in-swing and as said the likely
effect is a less predictive anchor and a little more disturbance. (A perfect
anchor lands softly and moves continuously under tension.) In good conditions 6
times rod length is possible with skill and practice but it is seldom
comfortable.
9 - What determines the maximum
mass of a custom fast sinking tip attached to a Spey line? Line
Density.
Or the
rate you want it to sink.
The maximum mass of anything transported by a vehicle is
determined by the size of the vehicle. A fly line is a delivery vehicle and its
mass determines what it can carry. In addition, to help turn over a mass taper
and use of materials of similar stiffness is advantageous. Skagit lines are
designed on this principle, to cast weighty tips and flies and that is why
they are so heavy, they are effectively large vehicles, the tractors of the
casting world, ?agricultural? but powerful!
10 - When Spey casting with a
fast sinking tip how can you reasonably sure that the line/fly will cast
cleanly? Cast a wider loop to prevent kick back.
I?m not sure what ?kick back? is; it may mean elastic recoil
from an overpowered cast in which case I agree. But here is a useful rule of
thumb, if you can ensure that half or more of a sink tip is kept aerialised,
tensioned in the D loop its odds on that the cast will go cleanly. Any slack
between the D loop and the fly or failure to ensure that a good portion of the
sink tip is out of the water are likely to cause
difficulties.
11 - How does the leader/fly
assemblage influence Spey cast and for Underhand casting? Use the leader you use for
the type of fish you are after. In The Spey cast the leader and some of
the line will be used as an anchor. The leader should be 15 to 20 Ft long
because none of the line should be in the water. This leaves only the
leader for an anchor.
Leader length and the fly?s bulk and mass affect the resistance to
lifting the anchor in Spey casting (I was asked to demonstrate casting with a
Bunker fly in a four foot wave in the sea in NJ some years ago and that was the
most difficult Spey casting that I have encountered!). In Underhand casting the
ideal is that all of the shooting head is out of the water and suspended in the
D loop between overhang and the leader. This sometimes requires long specially
tapered leaders but not if a tungsten bottle tube is being used! The general
leader design rules always apply; heavy/bulky flies need shorter and heavier
leaders. In both instances the leader and fly have to "balanced" to achieve
useable tension. Leader too long and/or fly too heavy - too much drag and the
line won't lift correctly and if it does it probably won't turn over nicely.
Leader too short and the "anchor" will lift too soon and if the cast goes
out the leader/fly is likely to recoil or land
heavily.
12 - Who popularised the modern
Underhand cast? What are the advantages and disadvantages of Underhand casting
compared to Spey casting?
Goren Anderson. 1. Less energy expended to make the
cast you don?t tire as easy. Makes you use the lower hand to apply power
thus helps those who have problem with a dominate hand. 2.Lower hand position
makes casting from waist deep water difficult. May cause Tailing loops unless
good control of the line.
Advantages also include ease of changing to different lines without
having to travel with a host of reels. Works well in confined spaces and is
ideal for sinking lines where you would have to shorten the line significantly
to lift it anyway.
The main drawback of the Underhand cast is management of the shooting
line, especially if you are going for long distance and using monofilament.
Shooting line can be difficult to hold because it is thin, it tangles easily,
catches herbage and if allowed to drift in the current it provides a lot of drag
to the outgoing line. Worst of all is when it encounters a leaf which starts
spinning!
13 - The rear portion of the
head of many WF Spey lines is comparatively heavy, why? To make sure the bulk of
the weight ends up in the ?D? loop. This loads the rod.
Good answer!
14 - What disadvantage (from a
fishing perspective) is encountered due to the heavy rear portion with certain
types of line? You must get the belly out of the rod
tip. This may not be easy in the excitement of fishing.
Lines with really heavy rear bellies drift more slowly in the current
(they have more resistance to movement - drag) which can be a disadvantage or
benefit depending on the circumstance and in the air the heavy rear portion (cf
the taper) can cause poor turnover at long distance unless the running line is
retarded.
Sinking lines sink ?belly first? which is a problem because the line
bottoms and drags the hook into snags. This can be rectified by using a hi
density tip or leader.
15 -What type of line was
preferred by Scotsman Alexander Grant who often cast over 160ft without shooting
any line over 100 years ago? What type of cast did he use? What type of rod and
where did it get its name from? Which of the modern lines most closely compare
with Grant's line?
1. Silk
? Yes
but a square plait (solid construction) continuous taper for the total length of
the line which incidentally could not be ?shot? because of its rough surface and
the folding rings that Grant preferred.
2. The Switch
Cast
? Yes although it was
sometimes referred to as ?The Planet Cast? because the rod tip made a horizontal
ellipse-like orbit in the air.
3. 21? Traditional Greenheart
SPEY Rod. ?The Grant Vibration?.
4. The name comes from the
Vibration Frequency Principle. Yes - Resonance ? each part of the rod was tuned to E flat I
believe.
5. Scientific Anglers XLT
Spey Line. ?
Wulff?s triangle taper Spey line is closest and is a great line for surface and
?greased line? fishing with light flies but the beautifully fine taper is not
ideal for large flies or heavy tips.
16 - What do you expect to see
if uncontrolled running line is used with a shooting head and:
Tangles, Lack of good
turnover of the cast. Control is needed to allow the shooting head to
accomplish a good light.
a)
- The running line is too light/lacks friction? A unwanted wanted pile
cast of the shooting head.
b)
- The running line is too heavy/excessive friction? Reduces the distance of
the shot.
c) - Imagine that you are
wading waist deep in a fast flow. Describe how the drag effect of loose running
line can be reduced whilst casting Managing the line as I strip into the head
while dividing the running line in to two segments .
d) - How can turnover be improved?
Manage
the running line carefully by using the line hand to stop the running
line while momentum is still in the line. Use stripping
gloves.
Good answers ? obviously gained from experience! In (c) it is
often necessary to hold several loops of line on different fingers to cast long
distances whilst wading in running water. Holding line in the bottom hand is the
best method.
17 - Howling upstream wind,
standing on a long steep bank four feet above the water (the bank rises to 100
ft). Fishing with a type 3 sinking line into deep water. What cast would you
suggest? Snap ?T? for anchor placement and switch to the wanted angle.
If needed roll the line to the surface.
Good answer I think that the ?Circle C? allows more control of
the anchor position. The ?snap based? casts are by far the easiest to use from a
high position. Being forced to stand a distance above the water makes all forms
of Roll and Spey casting more difficult because it alters the stroke length/D
loop relationship. (D loop becomes high and
shallow).
18 - Wind is downstream and you
are positioned back against a wall built right at the water's edge with no
possibility of wading? Choose an outfit and casting method to make best use of
the situation? Reduce length of line for the cast do a snake roll, floating minimal
?D? Loop. You can use Skagit Double Spey.
Snake roll would be very difficult
when you have a wall at you?re back, and so would any form of Double Spey. Here
the rule book goes out of the window and you really need to use the upstream
hand with a sustained anchor to ensure safety. I would choose a short
Scandinavian shooting head and use a Circle C or low plane Switch Cast with it
depending on how much angle change I needed. A
19 - For what purposes was
"
Good answer ? might have added
heavy tips and large flies.
20 - What are the advantages
and disadvantages of using a double tapered line for Spey casting?
The cost of a DT line is less initially and you can reverse the
line and get a longer life from the line. The disadvantage is the loss of
distance.
Good answer. You can
pick up as much line as you can handle, you don't have to worry about head
lengths, less tangles, shoot up to four line pulls easily, for small rivers DT
is fine. Disadvantage is simply that they are more difficult to cast
longer distances and less able to cope with a variety of tips which I guess is
why nobody offers a DT multi-tip line.
Here are just a few additional
questions asked by Rick Whorwood:-
21. - What is the primary
function of the rear taper of a Spey line ? A smoth transition to the
running line.
22 - Which is better, a
long rear taper or a short one ? Along rear taper allows more control longer
distance cast.
23 - Is it necessary to
have a rear taper on a Spey line ? No.
24 - Can you think of any
advantage to using a shooting head rather than a full Spey line ?
Allows
`quick sinking rate changes
Also allows head/belly length changes to be made to suit conditions
and the use of various shooting lines (choice of materials and densities).
Easily transported and good in confined places.
25 - Do you know of any
group of Spey fishermen who are known for cutting off the rear taper of their
Spey lines ? Could be steel headers. This is only a guss.
26 - In general, how are
Spey lines rated ? Belly length and a weight
point.
Jim Bass
QUIZ:
Spey
lines
Answers by Jim
Laing
4 - Recommend the head
(front taper + main mass (belly) + back taper) length to rod length for a
promising student.
Try a
head at least 4X the length of rod to give him/her some room to
grow.
Good
short answer
5 - How much floating
line (multiple of rod length) can be comfortably aerialised into a 'D' loop with
a long belly Spey line, single Spey cast and 45 degree angle
change?
Longer
6 - As (5) for a
Double Spey cast with a 90 deg angle change?
Shorter
7 - How do the answers
given in (5) and (6) vary for the following conditions:
Higher
the D Loop = more line under constant tension / More line = less change of
direction
a) - Standing on a casting platform? Most
line can be aerialized
b) - Wading ankle deep? Less
c) - Wading up to waist level?
Even
less
Good
understanding of the principles but be careful about ?height? because for
instance the vertical plane is not possible in Spey casting (no rotation)
and in describing casts note that ?constant? tension is impossible because of
direction changes alone.
8 - What can be done to
increase the length of line aerialised in a 'D' loop for a Single Spey cast and
what is likely to deteriorate during the casting sequence as this length is
increased?
Initial
lift higher → regulated power during sweep → more powerful upward thrust to
create D loop?
Risk
? ending up with anchor behind caster (not in box) or no anchor at
all?
A
properly executed in-swing is the easiest way. This is likely to incur a
slightly messy anchor ( a little slack and some splash) but if distance is
paramount the pros will be worth the cons.
10 - When Spey casting
with a fast sinking tip how can you reasonably sure that the line/fly will cast
cleanly?
Line
must be elevated in water column prior to making the initial lift before
repositioning.
Yes
sunken line must always be surfaced before you can manipulate but see my full
answer to Jim Bass?s response .
13 - The rear portion
of the head of many WF Spey lines is comparatively heavy,
why?
The
heavier rear portion ideally should be located from water anchor to rod tip
(air), where it will more efficiently load the rod, break water tension and turn
over lighter belly and front taper.
Good
answer!
16 - What do you expect
to see if uncontrolled running line is used with a shooting head
and:
a)
- The running line is too light/lacks
friction?
Kick
at the end of the head? but long distance with lots of slack in
layout.
b)
- The running line is too
heavy/excessive friction?
Shorter
straight cast.
c)
- Imagine that you are wading waist deep
in a fast flow. Describe how the drag effect of loose running line can be
reduced whilst casting?
Running line should be
smallest manageable diameter.
d)
- How can turnover be improved?
Optimize
amount of overhang→ delay rotation → while using a hard powerful
stop
Management
of the shooting line is key to achieving a smooth lift from the surface and some
retardation produced either by the natural resistance of the shooting line or by
the caster produces the tension to ensure turnover. Of course a straight rod tip
stroke and a perfect stop is essential for best results.
17 - Howling upstream
wind, standing on a long steep bank four feet above the water (the bank rises to
100 ft). Fishing with a type 3 sinking line into deep water. What cast would you
suggest?
Assuming
longer head? Roll to lift → Snap T to upstream
position
Good
answer ? incidentally I think that a Circle C offers more control over
positioning.
18 - Wind is
downstream and you are positioned back against a wall built right at the water's
edge with no possibility of wading? Choose an outfit and casting method to make
best use of the situation?
Longer
rod with a compact
A
19 - For what purposes
was "
Purpose?Windy
conditions ? less exposure → FAST delivery → High steep bank → More distance
with less room for D loop → Get fly deep fast
Technique?
Strip in running line → shorter, brief movement?s → shooting
line
The
key words that I was looking for were ?sustained anchor?, ?constrained space?
and ?heavy tips/large flies? but a good answer
nevertheless.
Here
is a question for you?
21 ? How great a change of direction is possible with a single Spey
cast ?
To
answer this question in practical terms I need to spare a thought for the
situation.
How
much back space is available because the D loop will have to project at 180
degrees from the target?
What
is the wind direction? If it?s favourable to the direction (quartering upstream
from my bottom hand side) life will be easier, if its downstream of quartering
towards me from the upstream hand side life will be very
difficult!
How
far do I want to cast? Clearly the more line I need to cast the harder it
becomes. A long belly or double taper line might make it harder than it needs to
be.
What
type of line, floating, sinking, sink tip?
How
deep am I wading because that constrains my vertical space?
Can
I place my feet comfortably in the intended casting
direction?
To
get maximum direction change I must rotate the rod, the line and my body as much
as possible to gain alignment with my feet which of course point to the casting
direction. The rod tip needs to perform a circuitous path of about 270+ degrees
to form the D loop, if I can do that the rest is easy.
I
could have answered this shorter but I wanted to outline the problems for those
who have never tried to make large directional changes .In good conditions I can
rotate the rod to around 315 degrees or if you like to 45 degrees upstream and
contrive a decent D loop but I can?t guarantee a perfect result every time nor
can I achieve it with more than 4 x rod length of line. A 90 degree change is
not difficult in reasonable conditions. In Atlantic salmon fishing casts are
usually more downstream that that. If, in a fishing situation you need to cast
at a big angle you can make false casts to achieve the desired angle (false
casts referred to here are normal Spey casts delivered onto the surface without
shooting line).
Best
wishes,
Ally
Gowans
See my web sites http://www.letsflyfish.com and http://www.flyfish-scotland.com
2010 Spey Casting and Salmon
Fishing Schools at The Kenmore Hotel March 19/21, April 16/18 and June
11/13. Trout fly fishing and fly casting school "Tackling Trout"
at The Kenmore Hotel May 21/22/23, 2010. See my web sites for more details of
schools.