Centerpins / Slide loading

I've transported my MailList Controller to another computer while mine is being repaired. Let's hope these messages get through to you. Missed a few days, so please pardon the extra length of this string of messages. Gordy

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The firm of S. Allcock & Co. based in Redditch, England was founded by Polycarp Allcock around 1800 and in its beginning primarily produced hooks. Polycarp's son Samuel joined the firm at a young age and was trained as a float maker. In 1860 under Samuel's direction of the company, Allcock's added rods to the burgeoning tackle business and moved to a larger location in Redditch with the purchase of another hook making company. In 1873 the company started to make their own reels after hiring Mr. Hughes, a Birmingham brass worker along with two youths. In 1874 J.W. Young joined the firm and immediately showed great promise in the area of reel making. Mr. Young produced many fine reels and added several innovations before leaving the firm to start his own business. Allcocks continued to make tackle until the 1970's. Their last reel was a re-release of the Match Aerial.

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

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Peter Morse is a World Class fly casting instructor. I learned many new things from him at the Whitefish Conclave. ( While Peter has been seeing our messages in Tasmania, he has had trouble getting through to us with return messages using Comcast. I switched him to a different server, and now we are in contact .) He comments on Centerpinning and Slide Loading. He refers to Peter Hayes who I believe is the fly casting distance champion of Australia .. Gordy

Gordy and group, Center pin reels have been very popular in Australia for many decades. They are used in particular by bait fishermen fishing off the ocean rocks and in the estuaries for a weed eating species known as luderick or blackfish which are re-known for their very delicate bite and sensitivity to bad presentation. Center pinning is still very popular in Australia but is still particularly popular in South Africa. Enthusiasts consider the South Africa made Scarborough reel to be the Rolls Royce of center pins and in the hands of a good operator its a deadly tool. There may be other reels made in South Africa that we don't hear about as well.

Re slide loading. By co-incidence I was re-reading Al Kytes work on distance casting as this subject developed. The factors that led to his "elite" group being just that stuck out - the smoothness, the total length of their casting stroke and arc, and the depth of the bend they managed to pull into the rod are all well known. I think the slide adds to all of these.

As we move into and through the slide we are not pulling a bend into the rod but are removing any slack and accelerating the line. The power stroke then comes in as "late butt rotation", its brief and its explosive and with a mirroring haul pulls a very deep bend into the rod.

The shots of Jay Clark are in my view classic late butt rotation after a slide. So the smoothness is enhanced by this long straight forward travel, a very deep bend gets pulled into the rod because of the position of the rod by the time we need to rotate. I use this technique a lot and aim to delay the rotation until as late as is feasible. I call it "leading with the butt". I notice a few casters (Peter Hayes from this part of the world in particular) aiming for distance strive to keep their rod flat (or unbent by rotation) for as long as possible - isn't that just slide?

With pure translation, one does, "pull", "drag" or "slide" the rod forward with no rotation at all. In SLIDE LOADING, however, the line hand moves toward the rod hand. That is a major difference, as I see it.

I highlighted one clause in your message, because I think that smoothing out the cast is one of the principle advantages of sliding. Of course, there are other ways of doing this as well. (Some of the smoothest casters I know including Bruce Richards don't use it.) Also, I didn't see anything in Al Kyte & Gary Moran's article, GOING FOR DISTANCE, which stated that slide loading was used by the elite casters. Maybe is was used and they just didn't note it.

You have pointed out an another advantage of slide loading: The fact that it can lead to late butt rotation. This, however, can be done with lots of pure translation before rotation even with no slide performed with the line hand.

Bruce Richards has noted the value of delayed rotation as leading to more efficient application of power as well as tighter loops using high speed video combined with the Casting Analyzer. I've noted the same thing without the use of any video or electronics. You and Peter Hayes use it because it works well. Champion distance caster Rick Hartman uses more pure translation prior to rotation than any caster I've yet seen .... but I didn't see him sliding his line hand back toward his rod hand as he did this.

QUESTION: Would the caster not get the same effect by delaying rotation with a long stroke starting with translation prior to late application of rod arc even if slide loading isn't performed ?

Yes, this leads to the question "is "slide loading" just another name for translation"? - but its translation with a deliberate and controlled absence of ANY rotation.

Well, there is one difference. In making the slide, the caster also moves the line hand back toward the rod hand which must feed some line back into the system. This very movement would delay effective rod loading. Some who advocate this feel that this leads to greater total rod loading once the slide is complete and rotation starts than would have occurred if slide loading had not been used. Whether this is true or not, I simply don't know. I doubt it has been measured. Perhaps some sophisticated physics study could be made to determine this in the future.

As this translation of the rod occurs and the line hand slides back toward the rod hand, rotation of the rod (rod arc) is delayed. This really is not CREEP, since it doesn't use up available rod arc. Bruce Richards and Noel Perkins have noted that creep is a rotational movement as they study this with the Casting Analyzer.

Good way to kick off 2009….!(sorry for the delay couldn’t send emails for a while)

First, I am not advocating slide loading….It is simply a technique that is available and a Master should be prepared to answer, explain and if necessary demonstrate, it doesn’t feel right for everyone, but apparently it worked for Joan. As a casting instructor I recommend many authors each for some particular aspect of fly casting “Understanding”… Your students will come with questions from all kinds of sources and as a FFF Master I believe we all should have a good understanding of all these “Traditions” as they are all part of our fly casting legacy.

We, in my opinion, make a mistake if we overlook or dismiss their perspective…I may not agree with a particular aspect of an individual author (very often just not understanding it yet) however over the years I have found the more I learn… the more I understand what they were saying…and the more I find similarities.

Second, I don’t think I understood slide loading initially, at first I was convinced it was Creep. I read the few paragraphs in Joan’s book. I became determined to understand it while working on my Masters, and once in a while I would get the timing right and boom! It didn’t really make sense until I was casting with Tom White in Marathon, Tom was showing me a pick up and distance cast (not slide loading) where he hauled a backcast to a shoot, made a Huge drift to almost parallel with the ground and then pulled it forward maintaining that rod angle until the rotation … a few months of trying to emulate Tom’s cast and it dawned on me that I could slide a horizontal rod to a larger rotation.

So don’t dismiss anything it all adds together… all part of your “Total Experience & Understanding” that makes a Master!

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I saw Tom do that many times ..... he did not, however, slide his line hand back as his rod hand moved forward. So what he did was pure translation .... for which we now have these synonyms: "Drag", "Pull", and with Peter's entry, "leading with the butt". He never used slide loading during the years he and I taught together.

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