Walter & Group...
My apologies: In my last message I had a brain *&^%)*&#% .... I mixed up Peter Morse with Peter Hayes !
It was Peter Hayes from Tasmania I met at Whitefish. In my opinion, he is a World class instructor. I learned some really neat new things from him. Gordy
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From Jim Liang.... a lesson to be learned:
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Jim ... You are right. I had made the same assumptions. Gordy
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From Guy Manning on casting "hard" as he comments on Al Crise's "ripping shorts" message and David Leger's answer :-
From Alan and David:
Howdy group and DAVID LEGER
I want to thank you Dave for that input. It does open my mind to a lot for function of the body that make sense.
I have a question. When hauling I mean really hauling 'Ripping my Shorts' to Quote Lefty. I will end up with sore arm and Tennis elbow. Also my chest and back will be feeling the workout. So what do I do to achieve Balance. Besides hitting myself in the face a few hundred times.
Gordy & Group:
I don't see any reason to be expending that much energy to make any cast in either the CI or MCI test. Stop trying to RIP it out there and instead work on smooth and tight. You will probably cast just as far if not farther. Ripping it causes errors and costs distance in all but the most skilled. Most of them are competition casters.
For smooth see Jay Clark casting a 6 wt floater which I had just sent to Gordy regarding slide loading. http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/grhen/video/?action=""> There is no short ripping here and the cast is at about 100 feet.
Guy Manning
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QUIZ ON SLIDE LOADING...... RESULTS :-
1.) Most thought it didn't really increase distance for most casters. A couple of answers included the caveat that it might if it was used as a casters own style.
2.) Many felt it was an issue of style, not a fault. Some said it might mask a fault.
3.) Most thought it could be a fault if done incorrectly.
4.) Almost all felt tht it could smooth out the cast if done properly with good timing. No one said it couldn't, but some said that they just didn't know.
5.) Half thought that it could result in shortening the stroke or rod arc if done improperly.
6.) No one figured that it would really increase the total rod load. One answered, "not much".
7.) Most agreed that slide loading could distribute the same load over a different time interval.
8.) Opinion was divided almost equally on whether this would be helpful.
9.) All said that a well informed Master should be familiar with it.
10.) No one said that we should be teaching it to our advanced students, though some said we should do that if asked.
11.) No one felt that we should criticize and/or eliminate its use if we found that one of our advanced students was slide loading.
12.) Opinion was almost equally divided as to whether the term, SLIDE LOADING, was a misnomer.
13.) Everybody except one agreed that it would probably remain a controversial subject. Some pointed out that this was OK.
Gordy
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Here is a note on the subject from Ally Gowans. I had sent it before, but it bounced for many of you :-
Hi Gordy,
I agree with your answers to the slide loading quiz. I think that one of the problems of SL is that those who don't use it or don't use it correctly are perhaps biased towards classical hauling. Slide loading is really more of a haul adjustment than a casting stroke adjustment.
Think of this if you will; pantomime an absolute maximum stroke back cast with the longest possible haul. Now note where you hands are. Your rod hand is probably at an angle (horizontal angle) about 45 deg to the rear and your front arm should be fully extended opposite the cast direction or if you like 135 deg (horizontal) from your rod hand. Now move your line hand back to your rod hand as if to feed line all the way back. Now you want to make a maximum distance forward cast so pantomime your movements and watch carefully the route taken by the line hand as it moves around your body from behind to in front and likely to finish to the left and behind your trouser pocket somewhere. This is a complicated move, how did it get there? I guess that first it moved at the same speed as your rod hand and then curving to the left it moved at right angles to the rod and eventually it started making and effective haul opposite to the rod direction. Now there is nothing wrong with this if you are comfortable and similarly there is nothing wrong with SL if you are more comfortable.
With SL your hand line hand would not have travelled back so far, the rod hand can accelerate much faster when the forward movement commences because there is little load and the haul can be made more or less axially and very effectively. In a normal false cast routine this is not a great benefit but if you are shooting several feet of line into the back cast it is easier to slide load a little and keep tension on the line or at least that is my impression from observing what others do.
Rotation is also worth looking at, where is rotation most effective? What are the optimum start and finish rod tip positions in relation to the casting direction? Lefty suggests that a good portion of the effective rod loading occurs when the rod tip is behind the caster and I am pretty sure that his assertion is correct even by looking at the launch position of these distance guys. What do you think?
Best wishes,
Ally Gowans
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My answers to his questions:
1. I think Lefty is correct. 2. The start and finish positions of the rod tip will vary with the distance of the cast and the casting style. For a distance cast, I'd like to see the start position at RSP way back and slightly upward : the finish position with RSP well forward.
Gordy
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From Alan and David:
Howdy group and DAVID LEGER
I want to thank you Dave for that input. It does open my mind to a lot for function of the body that make sense.
I have a question. When hauling I mean really hauling 'Ripping my Shorts' to Quote Lefty. I will end up with sore arm and Tennis elbow. Also my chest and back will be feeling the workout. So what do I do to achieve Balance. Besides hitting myself in the face a few hundred times.
I don't see any reason to be expending that much energy to make any cast in either the CI or MCI test. Stop trying to RIP it out there and instead work on smooth and tight. You will probably cast just as far if not farther. Ripping it causes errors and costs distance in all but the most skilled. Most of them ore competition casters.
For smooth see Jay Clark casting a 6 wt floater which I had just sent to Gordy regarding slide loading. http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/grhen/video/?action=""> There is no short ripping here and the cast is at about 100 feet.
Guy Manning
FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor
Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group
www.castflys.net
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To Gordy, Gary and group,
There is a strong bastion centerpinning anglers on the Great Lakes tribs (particularly the Salmon River in NY). Even though fly anglers sometimes refer to these anglers as “pinheads”, their drifts(and success) are the envy of everyone on the river. The centerpin technique of tapering the weight on the leader (heaviest weight near the indicator, the lightest weight near the fly) has been embraced by many fly fishing anglers in that area. You can find information by googling “Salmon River centerpinning.” Lot’s of stuff out there.
Thanks
Dave Jacobson
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