Mayfly pictures / ANSWERS TO TEACHING QUESTIONS

Take a few minutes to view this video link. Especially good detailed pictures of emergers :-

David Diaz has sent a well thought out set of teaching questions as well as some cases for teachers which are thought provoking in terms of their solutions.

We'll start off with his questions and 2 which I've added (More at a later date) :- These are good questions to consider. As always, David is a provocative thinker!

1.) How do you determine the level of a student's casting prowess ?

Suggested approach: Make a list of 2 to 4 qualities about a casting student that could be used to place him as a BEGINNER, an INTERMEDIATE or an ADVANCED caster.

a. What are the qualities you would use (consider) ?

1. Do they understand the essentials of fly casting sufficiently to correct their own casting?

2. How close is the quality and geometry of their forward cast to their back cast? Both horizontal and vertical planes

3. How many feet of line can they comfortably carry in the air?

4. How well do they adapt their casting to the conditions that they must cast in?

b. How do you weight them ? 1 to 10 in each category.<20=Beginner, 21-30 =Intermediate 31-40= Advanced

This can be argued a number of different ways! This is one approach.

2.) Understanding the components of casting mechanics is important for teaching. How useful is understanding them for learning ?

It is mandatory because the student must practice when he leaves a class and he must practice correctly.

3.) How important is it for learning for students to know why ?

If you are going to learn anything new, you must know "why" to understand yourself and to continue to teach the same material in the future.

A student that does not want to know "why" probably does not care enough to learn correctly when a problem is at hand. Everything we learn generally has a reason and inquiring minds usually learn quicker and with a complete understanding of the topic. Those with less interest are often just looking for a grade to get by or pass rather than to learn completely and to become the "best they can be".

Mack ..... I can see one exception; teaching young kids. Many have short attention spans and are kept interested when I concentrate on HOW.......rather than explanations of WHY. Another I've taught is the, "Zen" student (If it feels good, do it) who wants to avoid knowing why. G.

4.) Explain you answer to 3.)

Answered above

My additional questions:-

5.) Some experienced teachers of fly casting feel that it is very important to classify students into these categories (Beginners, Intermediate and Advanced.) Other equally experienced teachers feel that this is a useless exercise for which reason they don't do this in their schools.

How do you feel about this ?

Although we give our students a test following their class, we do this to find out how well we taught, rather than to classify the student. What is important is: if the student learned what they came to learn and are they encouraged to go fishing with their new skills. Moreover, are they interested in continuing their learning so that they become better fisherman and grow in the sport.

A good reason ! Your own self assessment. G.

6.) You have undertaken the teaching of fly casting to three female student in their thirties. They have hired you to help them improve their casting so they can do well on a fly fishing trip they've planned for trout on a famous river. You have no assistants, so your instructor/student ratio is 1:3. You have a full afternoon of 4 hours to accomplish your objectives.

One has never held a fly rod and has only observed anglers using one, so she wants to learn how to cast. Beginner

The second has barely mastered a basic cast. She can false cast and can shoot about 15' of line max. She doesn't haul. Her loops are often of medium size, though not consistently so. She gets an occasional tailing loop when trying for distance and doesn't handle wind well, at all. Beginner

Well, if she can shoot 15' to add that much distance to a reasonable amount of line carried (which I should have specified), I think some instructors might consider her an intermediate caster.

The third casts with nice tight, well controlled loops. She can haul well and can shoot line out to make an 80' presentation. Her shorter casts are accurate and her application of power appropriate to the amount of line carried. She knows how to handle wind from different directions. Advanced

a.) What level would you ascribe to each ? See above

b.) What are your GOALS and OBJECTIVES for each ?

1. Go through the essentials of casting with all to make sure they understand the mechanics of the cast.

2. Ask the Advanced student for her goals for attending the class and what specifically she wants to learn or improve on. Your plan for her will depend on her requirements and objectives.

3. The two beginners will start their casting in a horizontal fashion to allow them to see and feel what it takes to get their hands and arms to use the fly rod so as to produce better loops. When they reach that milestone then they start their overhead casting and they will understand how to use the fly rod as a tool to cast correctly.

4. Each student will be given ample time to cast, experiment, and improve their casting as they progress for one exercise to the next.

Of course, the GOAL in each instance is to reach the OBJECTIVE. As you so very well point out, this will be different for the advanced caster...... in fact, different for each of the beginners (or beginner and intermediate, if you choose to rate them that way.)

Let me congratulate you on a point I thought would be missed ..... the idea that no caster is perfect. We all feel the need to have improvement. You handled the advanced student very well by exploring what SHE perceived as room for improvement.

c.) How will you plan this important afternoon ?

Each student will leave with a complete understanding of casting essentials and the beginners will have learned basic casting skills including roll casts, change of direction, false casting, shooting line, line control for drag free drifts and more if they progress well. The Advanced student will leave with her goals met or with substantial improvements with her stated goals. Her improvement will likely come from seeing beginning and ending video clips of the casting exercise.

Mack. You have given the goals and objectives, above. What I'm after is just how you will undertake the daunting task of actually doing this with three casters of widely differing skill levels. Would you:

1.) Teach one at a time ?

2.) Teach all at the same time ?

3.) Go through basics review with all using the new caster as an example ...... then give each a set of tasks to practice while you go back and forth from one to another ?

4.) Another plan of, "attack" ?

(I do like the idea of using the video, especially for the more advanced caster )

Gordy

(This is one of the, "homework" assignments which Floyd Franke gave me when he was helping me with my preparations for the MCCI exam, years ago.)

Gordy

Mack Martin

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From Walter Simberski (A slightly different way of looking at these questions) :-

Wow! I personally consider this to be the trickiest of trick type questions. On the surface it seems simple and

innocent - "Tell me a few simple characteristics (2 to 4) that separate beginner, intermediate, and advanced casters?"

You might as well ask for 4 words that identify the 5 principles.

First of all I would have to establish a resonably clear definition of beginner, intermediate and advanced caster. Second,

is the categorization all inclusive, e.g. are there additional categories such as expert of absolute beginner? Third, why

are we trying to categorize the casters? To group them for testing or teaching purposes? What are we teaching -

distance casting, "trick" casts, etc.? Or is the exercise more of a rhetorical one - we just want to establish a few

basic guidelines for separating levels of casting ability and will adapt these basic concepts to fit real life situations such

as we need to separate a group of students into subgroups based on ability.

The CCI and MCI tests do a good job of grading a caster's ability. Obviously we can't run every student through

a complete CCI or MCI test before starting a class but what do the tests really focus on? Number 1 is loop control.

Regardless of length of line carried is the student able to control the size of their loops and produce various loop

sizes and shapes at will? Can they adapt their loops to fit changing situations such as wind from various directions?

Can they demonstrate the basic mechanics of controlling the loop size and shape? After that the tests focus on individual

skills such as accuracy, distance, and curves and mends. While the person being tested is expected to demonstrate

a certain level of proficiency none of the tests require record level setting capabilities and this is proper because an

individual may demonstrate a single skill that is beyond expert but may only be acceptable in other areas and the limitations

may be beyond the caster's control. E.g., someone confined to a wheelchair is unlikely to set distance records irregardless of their

command of the 5 principles but if they want to be an MCI they have to be able to cast 85 feet regardless of limitations.

So to answer the questions:

1. a

i - Loop control

ii - individual skills such as curves, mends, accuracy, distance, etc.

iii - the ability to recover and adapt to such things as environmental conditions or faults (more on this later).

b - loop control definitely is number 1 to separate at all levels (beginner, intermediate, advanced)

- skills is number 3 to separate at all levels (beginner, intermediate, advanced)

- the ability to adapt and recover really separates intermediate and advanced and also establishes the expert level.

One thing I find consistent with the very best casters is their ability to recover from a fault. They make fewer casting

faults than intermediate or advance casters but they have the ability to recover the cast when the faults happen. I've watched

some incredibly skilled casters carrying 80+ feet of line tick the water on their forward cast. For me that would be the

immediate end of the cast - the line would collapse in a bird's nest. For the truly expert caster they are able to add

a bit more power to their back cast and recover as if nothing had happened. A truly expert caster is able to change a

70 foot cast in mid stroke to hit a rising fish 20 feet away. Many of us can perform compound (snap ) casts when

we want to, very few of us have ever applied one in a real life situation. Another thing I see is what happens when

the caster approaches the limit of their capabilities. For beginner/intermediate and even advance casters trying

to carry the maximum amount of line they are capable of we start to see timing faults, giant loops, etc. The true

advanced and expert level caster maintains good form and control right up to the end of their individual abilities.

2. Very useful. They may need to be restated to fit the student's frame of reference (e.g. an engineer has

a different view of smooth application of power compared to an athlete or an artist).

3. Depends on the student and their individual goals.

4. If they just want to go on a company fishing outing

and may not pick up a rod until the next compnay outing a year later then beating them over the head with

F = ma isn't going to do much to help them enjoy their day of fishing. If they want to become a CCI or an MCI

then they better learn the stuff.

5. So if I'm the lone instructor for a class of 20 intermediate students I shouldn't worry about their individual abilities?

I may be missing an opportunity to identify students who could be assisting me with the class. I may also be

attempting to teach triple haul to a bunch of beginners. I think a certain amount of categorization is necessary

(the entire school system backs me up on that or we would not have the grade system or a need for marks)

but it can easily be over done. Example, in a distance casting class putting a 12 year old who is able to cast 100

feet with a group of adults doing no more than 50 feet because the next group level is doing 120 feet.

6.a. I suppose the easy answer is beginner, intermediate, advanced. I would personally call them rank beginner,

beginner, intermediate/advanced.

b. To get the beginners to the intermediate level. To get the intermediate advanced to the advanced level. This may

not happen during the actual class but I would give each of them the skills and abilities to improve and

hone their skills after the class (assuming they want to practice after the day is over).

c. Before anything I would spend some time in conversation with the individuals to see what their goals are. The

Student teacher ratio in this situation gives me a lot of flexibility as to what to cover in the class. For the

beginner level students I would definitely plan on the basics including loop control and the 5 principles. I

would want them to understand when and why loops need to be altered. I would also concentrate on

mends and shooting line for the beginners.

For the more advanced student I would want to get their input before I get too elaborate with planning.

Walter

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Walter...

Some good thoughts in your answers.

Now, could you give us more details to question 4.) c. (Just how you would actually carry out the afternoon plan..... you have 3 students with different levels of expertise with different goals and objectives. Teach them all at once, teach them seperately, use a better plan ????????????????

Gordy