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  • "Ron Hyde" loop / Answers to quiz



    Walter & Group........

    Question from Jim Higgins:

    Gordy
     
    What is the Ron Hyde loop you put on the back of your fly line?
     
    Jim Higgins
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    Jim....  It is a small loop made by folding the end of the fly line over and then placing two nailless nail knots 1/4" apart using seperate pieces of nylon monofilament .... 8 to 12 lb. test.  (These are the same as snell knots)  Ron Hyde taught this to us... but he may well not have been the first to use this system.
     
    Advantages:  Easy to do, even with the mono in your fly vest while standing in the river using materials you usually have with you.  Strong.  Allows quick, "loop-to-loop" change of leader and/or fly line in the field.
     
    Disadvantages:  Does tend to catch in the tip top as you wind the leader up while landing a fish.
     
    Applications:  I use this system on both ends of my fly lines for systems 8 and above.  Also, for all my salty tackle. Good for so-called, "slime lines" and clear coat lines, because it doesn't tend to tear the coating off the fly line the way a single nail knot sometimes does.
     
    Gordy
     
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    Many answers to the quiz.  I'll send a couple of the best answers with my comments        Gordy :-

    From Jim Penrod (his answers in red.  My comments in bold blue italics .) :-

    Let's begin with a little quiz :
    1.) Your student is about to purchase an outfit to fish mountain streams for trout.  You and he have settled on a recommended 4 wt. rod and floating wt. forward fly line.  You have taught him what he needs to know about leaders.  Now he asks you about backing for his fly line.   What do you teach him ? With a four weight rod (sounds like a new

    fisherman) considering expense and fish size 20 lb Dacron should be sufficient.   Yes.


    2.) I've planned a trip to fish large mouth bass the Sawgrass Preserve in the Florida Everglades.  What backing would be best for my reel ? 30 lb Dacron or
    Spectra-possible lilly pads to contend with.  Yes.  Also, abrasive sawgrass (It's well named).  (Actually, these bass rarely run far enough to get into the backing.)


    3.) My grandfather says that the only backing he ever used for fly fishing was silk.  Are there any disadvantages to using this ? I suspect
    that it is expensive and possibly difficult to find. I would wonder about breaking strength as well although I have no experience with thisTrue.  Also, it rots if put away damp.


    4.) My Uncle Charlie said that he used to use Cuttyhunk backing when fishing for striped bass on Cape Cod prior to WWII. 
         a.  What is it ? Now you have mentioned this before (and once again it is not embedded in my brain) Is it a linen?
         b.  Any disadvantages to using it ? It has to be rinsed and dried.  It is woven linen.  It, too, rots when damp.  Doubt one could even find it any longer.  Very little stretch (not a real dissadvantage, however.)  Bulky knots even though they are strong.  Named after CUTTYHUNK ISLAND , Mass., where it was used extensively as a trolling line.  The original material was literally wound up by hand in the early 1900's.  In the 30's when I used it, the better brands were expensive.  the cheaper stuff was terrible.  We'd get home from fishing, strip it off the reel, wash it in fresh water and string it up around my mother's dining room chairs to dry before putting it back on the spool.


    5.) This student wants to use 15 lb. test nylon monofilament line for his backing.  Are there any disadvantages to his using it ? Yes.
    It tends to dig into the reel and can lock down on itself.  Also, if wound on tight, it can spread and ruin a spool.  Too much stretch for many applications, as well.


    6. ) List some advantages to the use of woven Dacron backing. If two colors are used it is fairly easy to see. It seems stiffer-is it less likely
    to tangle?   True... but the main advantages are:  1. Good strength per diameter,  2. You can get lots of backing on the reel,  3. Good knot strength,  4. Won't rot,  5. Moderate price,  6. Little stretch.


    7.)  Are there any disadvantages to the use of Dacron backing for my trout reel ? Tell me if there are.  Not very abrasion resistant.


    8.)  Your student says that she can buy nylon multifilament line for backing for less money than Dacron or Spectra.  She is a trout fisher, fishing lakes.  Any disadvantage to her choice ? Yes. It can cut into itself with a big fish on. In the summer if she gets into shallows and really warm water theoretically the backing could become quite limp and tangle.   Disagree.  It does not cut into intself under duress.  Doesn't tangle as badly as mono.  For her lake fishing, it isn't a bad choice.


    9.) Can you list some differences between Dacron and Nylon multifilament backing materials ?Dacron has no stretch to speak of while
    multifilament does. Dacron is more temperature tolerant.  We havn't noted the temperature intolerance even in the Keys and Bahamas.  Both have good knot strength.  Nylon multifilament has larger diameter per pound test strength than Dacron.


    10.)  What is ARAMID ? That is the name of the chemical category into which Kevlar falls I think.  Correct.


    11.)  Is there any disadvantage to the use of Kevlar for fly reel backing ? Connecting to the fly line could be a problem as it is so strong
    and could eventually cut through the fly line. Jim  True.  After long hard use, it becomes brittle, too.
     

    Jim

    Gordy

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    From Gary Eaton.... His answers in bold blue.  My comments in italics.:

    Let's begin with a little quiz :

    1.) Your student is about to purchase an outfit to fish mountain streams for trout.  You and he have settled on a recommended 4 wt. rod and floating wt. forward fly line.  You have taught him what he needs to know about leaders.  Now he asks you about backing for his fly line.   What do you teach him ?

    It depends! If all you will ever use this spool for is these trout- inexpensive backing to fill the spool adequately will be all you need. Synthetic material (Dacron) attached with proper knots will suffice. If to be used for small-fresh water- a Duncan loop to attach to arbor and a simple Albright knot or Uni-Knot to attach to fly line would be taught.   OK.
     

    2.) I've planned a trip to fish large mouth bass the Sawgrass Preserve in the Florida Everglades.  What backing would be best for my reel ?

    Due to the abrasion rich environment, I would suggest a newer synthetic like GSP or Spectra braid. Also offers the benefit of hyrophobic material that will likely not pick-up brackish inclusions for easier rinse-off, spool protection. Largemouth runs tend to be a little less than some fish so an "average" amount of heavier (30-60 pound) backing might be worth paying the extra money for.     agree.

    3.) My grandfather says that the only backing he ever used for fly fishing was silk.  Are there any disadvantages to using this ?

     
    Yes. Silk requires a lt of maintenance to prevent mildew and rot. I am not sure where to find it, nowadays. Silk is not particularly abraision resistant and seems to cling to everything when wet unless you treat it dilligently between uses - after drying. I would bet it is expensive in the 21st century, too. I do not recommend it under normal circumstances.
     
    agree.

    4.) My Uncle Charlie said that he used to use Cuttyhunk backing when fishing for striped bass on Cape Cod prior to WWII. 

         a.  What is it ?

     
    woven linen line.     yes

         b.  Any disadvantages to using it ?

     
    Soaks up water and gets weak and heavy. Pretty large diameter in the stuff I remember. I got a few cuts from it when using it as a kite string so I think it would be damaging to guides.    
     
     We used it for many years.  It did not damange the guides.  The stuff rots when damp and gets weak spots.

    5.) This student wants to use 15 lb. test nylon monofilament line for his backing.  Are there any disadvantages to his using it ?

     
    Yes. Worse is that is buries into itself and locks in on the spool. It has a lot of stretch so can be very hard to put on a spool properly.      Yes.  Also, it can exert pressure which can literally spread the spool and damage the reel.

    6. ) List some advantages to the use of woven Dacron backing.

     
    Lower stretch; not prone to rot so easier maintenance; stays limp so easy to use (knots, winding, etc); usually can get colored to distingusih from fly line; pretty inexpensive; reasonable or "standard" diameter.
     
    Yes.

    7.)  Are there any disadvantages to the use of Dacron backing for my trout reel ?

    Probaly none if you can get enough on - it tends to be a bit large in diameter compared to aramid synthetics.
     
    Agree.

    8.)  Your student says that she can buy nylon multifilament line for backing for less money than Dacron or Spectra.  She is a trout fisher, fishing lakes.  Any disadvantage to her choice ?

    Disadvantage may be bulk and limited amount that can be applied to the spool. If she has a higher capacity spool it may be reasonable. MF  has gaps in it that may collect debris. In lakes it may be abrasive debris that can become problematic without attention to cleaning and maintenance. Stretch may be a problem as in the mono answer above and the MF I have seen is a little tougher to knot or handle. 
     
    True.... but I don't think these things will be a big problem to her lake fishing.

    9.) Can you list some differences between Dacron and Nylon multifilament backing materials ?

    The biggest difference I can envision is the greater stretch of Nylon over Dacron (polyester). This should result in higher strength to diameter for the polyester (Dacron). I believe nylon is also slicker to the touch, so may offer less grip or abrasion            Yes

    10.)  What is ARAMID ?

     
    Nomex was a Dupont ARAMID fiber used in my firefighting "turnout" gear when I was a professional firefighter as a replacement for carcinogenic asbestos. Aramid fibers, including Kevlar, are heat and abrasion resistant and can be woven like conventional yarns into industrial applications.

    FTC definitions is: A manufactured fiber in which the fiber-forming substance is a long-chain synthetic polyamide in which at least 85% of the aramid bonds are attached directly to two aromatic rings.

    Yes.

    11.)  Is there any disadvantage to the use of Kevlar for fly reel backing ?

    Expensive. Virtually no stretch. May be very abrasive. 
     
      Yes as far as expense is concerned.  It can literally fracture after hard use.  It can cut into the spool, because the brands I've played with are very tightly woven and circular in cross section.  Poor knot strength unless special knots are used, too. We didn't find it particularly abrasive.
     
    Gordy