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  • Casting with the non-dominant hand .... Answers



    Walter & Group........

    Avoid Ally Gowans' attachment until you have read some of the Group responses.  Then it will make good sense and add to what you have already learned.      Gordy

    I've chosen these answers for us to chew upon :

    From Al Crise (first to respond) My comments in bold blue italics:-

    Let's have a little 20 question / answer series on CASTING WITH THE NON-DOMINANT HAND :-

     

    1.) Do you ever use the, "other" hand to make casts while actually fishing ? Yes (I am right hand dominanted)

    same with me  ..... G.

    2.) If so, name some instances when you would do this. Working  around obstacles where a right hook is needed.. Bank or trees on the right side of me. Wind on to my right side. Rest the hauling arm.

    agree.    .... G.

    3.) Many feel that a Master Instructor should be able to make basic casts with the non-dominent hand.

            a.  Do you agree ? YES

            b.  Why ? Students learn faster if I guide with the same hand as they are.

            c.  Would you use this skill in your teaching ?  All the time

            d.  If so, give at least two examples. Left-handed student, handicapped student, Teaching the wind casts

    agree      ... G.

    4.)  Can you think of a circumstance when you would cast with your, "other" had which has nothing to do with the fishing situation, weather (including wind) or teaching ? Just to keep my timing and ability to do so. When I injured my left arm.

    agree   .... G.

    5.)  If you did learn to cast with the non-dominent hand, tell us how you did so.  Moving both hands together with out a rod. Then adding a rod to both hands with out line.  .

    That's how I did it.  Then followed up with casting  with line ... one rod in each hand, then only the non-dominent hand. G.

    6.)  Assuming that you did, what was the most difficuly thing for you to learn to do well ?  Hardest part for me was to learn to strip in line with my right hand.

    Most difficult for me was the double haul when casting with my, "other" hand.    ....   G.

    7.)  You have a student who is doing very well at an intermediate to advanced level of casting.  She very much wants to learn to cast with her opposite hand, but is not ambidextrous.  What methods might you use to accomplish this ? Pantomime the movements of the right with out a rod. Add a rod to the left hand. move both hands as if you had a rod in them mimic the rod hand to the dominate arms movements.

    Good way to start.    ..... G.

    8.)  Can you see any real advantage in two handed casting (including Spey casting) with the non-dominant hand high on the cork and the dominant hand below ?  If you have injured the dominant arm. Need to really add power to the rod rotation.

    Well ....  main reason is to have a good way to keep your D-loop on your Downwind side in a less stressful and less awkward manner.   ......  Dennis Grant and Ally Gowans convinced me of this.     .... G.

    9.)  Under what circumstance might you use this method when Spey casting on a river ?  (Consider which bank you are on, wind, etc., etc.)  River left on the bank making casts up stream.  River right making cast up stream with a strong wind down stream.

    Yes.    G.

    10.)  What does the term, "cackhanded" mean ? backwards.

    Casting off your left shoulder when you are right handed, with your right hand uppermost on the cork grip and your left hand at the bottom.      ... G.

    11.)  Can you come us with a reference in the fly casting literature for this term ? no

    Check out SPEY CASTING, by Simon Gawesworth, Chapter 17, pp. 225 - 226.     ... G.

    12.)  What percent of people in the US and Europe are right handed ? I have found that one in five are left handed.or 80% are right.

    15%.     .... G.

    13.) What percent of people do you think are truly ambidextrous ? less that 5% the rest are self taught.

    Probably correct.  No really good statistics, because many children are basically left handed and then are converted at an early age to learned righthandedness.  These are often said to be, "ambidextrous".

    14.)  Do you know of anyone who passed all of the casting tasks on the MCCI exam with the left hand after being Master Certified for many years with the right hand ? Tom White and Gordy Hill.

    NOT Gordy.  Tom is the only one I know who did that.  I tested him ...... perfect score !!!     ..... G.

    15.)  Can you think of any disadvantages to casting with the non-dominent hand ? Often the depth perception is effected being dominant Eye can effect your casting. Timing will be better with the RIGHT hand

    Correct.  Also, most cannot get the distance achieved with the primary arm when using the non-dominent one.   ... G.

    16.)  When you switch hands to cast, is it also necessary to use a reel with the handle on the other side ? No I can wind with either hand

    Agree.

    17.)  Would you include teaching to cast with the, "other" hand to your beginning students ? Not beginners unless lead that way for a physical reason. Blind in one eye.

    Right .... or with any disability precluding the use of the primary hand.

    18.)  If not, when would you consider teaching it ?   "C" and as in 17, the physical problems direct.

                  a. Once the students can shoot line and haul.

                  b. Advanced students.

                  c. When teaching instructors.

                  d. Other (specify).

                  e. Never.

    Agree.

    19.)  Do you have any methods in your, "bag of tricks" to help teach casting with the non-dominant hand ? Pantomime, with both hands doing the same thing, the mind learns faster

    Good ones.  

    Helps to start with basic pickup and laydown even if the student is a good caster with the primary arm. 

    Then go to actual casting with rods in each hand .... no line.  Go from that point to casting line with each hand at the same time.  Lastly, practice with the non-dominent hand.

    Some students do better with horizontal casting over grass, because they can see the line loops in each direction.

    Best to teach this with LIGHT RODS to avoid cramping and pain in less used muscle groups !   I started by spending a couple of weeks doing exercises with my, "other" arm     ... G.

    20.)  Is it necessary to change styles of casting when single handed casting with the, "other" hand ? My default style is 15 degrees off vertical. right foot back. I do change to left foot back when casting left handed. Still have some trouble with the haul timing.

    Not otherwise necessary, though I've observed some students changing style a bit on their own as they try to learn this. ...G.

    ol Al

    Gordy

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    From Liam Duffy:

    Hi Gordy,
                 Being left handed I have an advantage with these questions so here are my answers:
    1. Yes.
    2. When drift fishing (lough style, two in a boat which is drifting side on) each angler should use the hand/arm which is on the side away from your partner.  Also when river fishing, depending on direction of flow of the river (same rule as Spey casting)
    3. Yes I agree, being left handed, I find that 90% of my students are right handed and one should use the same side as the student for clarity and again when teaching spey casts with a single handed rod
    4. Yeah, when I get tired fishing all day I usually switch hands just to help my concentration when the fishing is slow and again when I wish to keep my "eye in" with each hand
    5. Best way to learn with the non-dominant hand is start with the basic overhead cast. take two similar rod/line combinations and cast with one in each hand, I find the dominant hand helps to "teach" the other hand/arm the correct movements, power application, etc. Next go to roll casts, sidearm casts, mends, slack line, etc. you will find that if you try to "mirror" the casts made by the dominant hand with the other rod/line it will come much easier and sooner
    6. Double hauling can be a right "b***H" at first, but using sidearm method and concentrating on each haul sequence seperately they will come together but DON'T RUSH IT!!!
    7. See 5 above it really does work!
    8. Aw, come on! using the "wrong hand up" or reverse casting with a double hander can lead to lots of problems. 1. Body twist (NOT upper body rotation) which leads to all sorts of problems. I.E. having lets say the right hand up and casting over the left shoulder leads to shortened stroke, jerky power application, incorrect casting arc, rolling the shoulder, "sliced" rod tip path, tailing loops, lack of drift lack of balance especially when trying for distance etc (and possibly falling in)
     
    9. I would not use this method and in fact refuse to teach it, I emphasise that the power combined in you two arms is the same and that the only problem in changing hands is "in the mind" if you are slightly weaker in one arm you can compensate by using a little more power with the dominant hand/arm.  From experience I have found that it is amazing how many people can become "ambidextrous" in ten or fifteen minutes with the double handed rod given the correct instruction
    10 An english term, I refuse to comment untill anyone can tell me what a "kithooge" is(Irish term)

    Isn't a KITHOOGE a left handed Irishman ???     ... G.


    11. Reversed casting (sorry, I had to comment despite the reference to 10)
    12 About 90% in Ireland poor them. (I hope you are aware that "kithooges " are known to be more artistic and intelligent than right handers) check einstein, picasso, Da Vinci,Ruebens,Van Gogh, etc.
    13 At a rough guess 5% although in Ireland, this persentage would be higher as left handers (kithooges) were forced to use the right hand in schools, etc
    14 No, but if you like I'll do it
    15, No but a little more concentration is need in the beginning
    16, No, lots of people cast and wind with the same hand 

    True....  but it does give one yet another option once learned.     ..... G.


    17.Normally never but I had a student who was so bad that I switched hands and we both found out that he was left handed when casting!!!!(he had been "instructed" by a "local expert" who insisted he cast right handed)

    WOW!  I've never come across that folly !!!      ... G.


    18 Only advanced students on request WHEN I BELIEVED they were accomplished (skilled) enough to advance to that level, and other instructors under the same circumstances
    19 As I said above, start with a rod/line in each hand and use the dominant hand as a guide for the other hand/arm, try to "mirror" the cast made with the dominant arm/hand with the cast made with the non-dominant hand/arm and work through the casts as I said in question 5 above
    20. Assuming there is no physical problem the short answer is "No"
     
    Best Regards,
    Liam Duffy 

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    From David Diaz:-

    G: 
     
    Basic casting ability with the non-dominant hand, one's other hand, should be a requirement for MCI certification.  Aside from fishing for which both handedness is a terrific advantage,   the important use is to as a demonstration for those who cast with your "other" hand.   When the instructor's casting is in phase with the student, then the student is not required to make the conversion.   Another teaching application is using the other hand to eliminate barriers, tress for instance,  for demonstration.   I am referring to single-handed casting, here. 
     
    I'll be happy to answer the 20 questions after I tell you that the best method of learning to cast with your other hand is way that  Dan Lagace teaches.   You probably know him, already.  He lives in the Tampa Bay area.  Dusty knows him.   I would like to get him in the FFF Certification program, but because it disappointed him once and because he's well satisfied with what he does already, we may not be able to. Gordie, he may remain one of excellent fly casting instructors who isn't interested in wearing our badge.
     
    If you'd like some details on his method, let me know.  Essentially,  he uses the dominant hand to guide the "other" hand.  The results are sensational.  On several occasions,  adequate casters become excellent casters with their other hand.   That is, sometimes, one doesn't have to settle for basic competence with the other hand.
     
    For two-handed casting, learning to reverse dominant and subordinate hands has high utility.  And it's not very hard.  If fact, frequently,  doing so makes for better casting. That's because when a dexterdominant caster casts in a sinisterdominant arrangement, his reliable "boss" hand is below providing the torque.   
     
    Just as dancing teachers learn both the ladies' and gentlemen's parts so that they can instruct either,  so the MCI should be able to teach with either hand.   
     
    David Diaz
     

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    DD ....  I, for one, would love to know the details of Dan's method.  The idea of using the dominant hand to guide the other is something I hadn't considered.      Gordy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From Ally Gowans:

    Hi Gordy,

     

    Attached article is something that I wrote a few years ago and it may be of interest to the group once you have some answers from them.

     

    Best wishes,

    Ally Gowans

    DVD video “Spey Casting Made Easy” by Ally details http://www.letsflyfish.com/spey_casting_dvd.htm

    See my web sites http://www.letsflyfish.com and http://www.flyfish-scotland.com 

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

    A slightly different look at this from Gary Eaton:-

    Gary & Group........

    Let's have a little 20 question / answer series on CASTING WITH THE NON-DOMINANT HAND :-

    Answers are for a right handed caster. 

    1.) Do you ever use the, "other" hand to make casts while actually fishing ?

    Yes.

    2.) If so, name some instances when you would do this.

    River right downstream presentation, dense cover

    3.) Many feel that a Master Instructor should be able to make basic casts with the non-dominent hand.

            a.  Do you agree ?

    NO

            b.  Why ?

     

    Same logic as Hank Aaron was not a switch hitter. It does not make nor unmake him as great.

    I strongly suspect this will be brought up at the next CBOG meeting and a vote taken as to whether or not to add casting with the non-dominent hand to the new MCCI exam.  We'll wait and see.      .... G.

            c.  Would you use this skill in your teaching ?

    Sure, I do.

            d.  If so, give at least two examples.

    To break a cycle of ingrained bad habits, I have them cast with the unhabituated hand.
    Right hand to partly mixed dominance but with a left "Master Eye" in a new caster having trouble getting consistency.

    4.)  Can you think of a circumstance when you would cast with your, "other" hand which has nothing to do with the fishing situation, weather (including wind) or teaching ?

    Pain or impairment in right limb. (ANY PHYSICAL LIMITATION)
    Needing to steady one self with the right hand (wading staff downstream).
     

    5.)  If you did learn to cast with the non-dominent hand, tell us how you did so.

    Just starting but, developed some left hand techniques for right wind and I am not nearly as strong  nor accurate with the left. Some value on the front of a boat or the stern of a canoe with two anglers (usually drift fishing so casts are smaller part than mends).

    6.)  Assuming that you did, what was the most difficuly thing for you to learn to do well ?

    Still not good at it. But longer casts seem strangest.

    7.)  You have a student who is doing very well at an intermediate to advanced level of casting.  She very much wants to learn to cast with her opposite hand, but is not ambidextrous.  What methods might you use to accomplish this ?

     
    Start shorter distances and work on accuracy - that is more of a mid-line task.

    8.)  Can you see any real advantage in two handed casting (including Spey casting) with the non-dominent hand high on the cork and the dominant hand below ?

    I think this is almost a natural. Off shoulder in one hand casting is switch the hand positions in two hand.

    9.)  Under what circumstance might you use this method when Spey casting on a river ?  (Consider which bank you are on, wind, etc., etc.)

    to put the fly downwind - as always. Right bank upstream wind for one.

    10.)  What does the term, "cackhanded" mean ?

    Deroggatory name for lefties. My Irish Grandmother O'Bryan was fond of the term.

    11.)  Can you come us with a reference in the fly casting literature for this term ?

    Not off the top of my head.

    12.)  What percent of people in the US and Europe are right handed ?

    85 to 95%
     

    13.) What percent of people do you think are truly ambidextrous ?

    less than 2 %

    14.)  Do you know of anyone who passed all of the casting tasks on the MCCI exam with the left hand after being Master Certified for many years with the right hand ?

    Captain Tom White

    15.)  Can you think of any disadvantages to casting with the non-dominent hand ?

    If the dominant hand and dominant eye are the same and you try to place an accurate cast with the non-dominant hand casting on that side.

    16.)  When you switch hands to cast, is it also necessary to use a reel with the handle on the other side ?

    Not always. Many people cast  and reel with the same hand, switching rod hands or inverting the reel when necessary.

    17.)  Would you include teaching to cast with the, "other" hand to your beginning students ?

    Usually not

    18.)  If not, when would you consider teaching it ?

                  a. Once the students can shoot line and haul.

                  b. Advanced students.

                  c. When teaching instructors.

                  d. Other (specify).

    when the student has a desire
    when the student has a need (acquired dominant arm impairment)
    when the student is having trouble due to bad habits with the dominant arm casting.
     

                  e. Never.

    19.)  Do you have any methods in your, "bag of tricks" to help teach casting with the non-dominant hand ?

    Yes-
    Cast to targets early
    Start short distances and short durations
    Start with mid line tasks like accuracy
    Move to side arm casting for visualization and loop control
    Early go to two-handed tasks like simple hauling or one-direction shoot
     

    20.)  Is it necessary to change styles of casting when single handed casting with the, "other" hand ?

    Depends on the caster. If they are overhead vertical casters- changing to sidearm with the non-dominant hand gives them less familiar frame of reference and may let them break-out sooner. Same for side arm casters - moving to overhead, or vertical, lets them focus on the sight plane and forget about which hand they are using once in a while.

    Gary Eaton

     

     

     

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