Walter & Group........
Guy Manning in response to the answers I gave Walter Simberski on the MCCI exam. My brief comments in bold green .. G.:
Gordy,
My
comments in red about your answers to Walter.
Task 11 includes
casting over both shoulders so even if I never hit one target while
casting
over either shoulder
this counts as a single failed task? In the current version of the test I
believe that
this would be two
failed tasks...
I
interpret this the same way. More difficult than previously ?
Yes. G.
I disagree, they would only fail task #11. You can’t fail the same task twice.
You are right, Guy ..... only flunk task # 11 even if you flunk one or both parts of it. G.
Will the same
standards and procedures be applied to the accuracy casts on the CCI exam? I
have students
working towards their
CCIs and want to make sure we have a clear understanding.
This
will be up to the CCI Testing Committee and then the CBOG. Might occur in
the future, but not at present.
G.
My
opinion here is that what we are testing is a simple basic skill. If you
as a master candidate cannot accurately present a fly at distances at about 55
feet, or as a CI at 45 feet, then you need to rethink your readiness to attempt
the test. This is not a difficult task and it is a basic fishing skill.
In my experience most people fail this portion of the test because they cannot control the trajectory of their cast. People have well formed loops and mostly good distance but they turn the loop over way to high off the ground and wonder why they can’t hit the target. If your loop turns over 5 feet off the ground then the fly is going to be subject to elastic rebound of the line and drift introduced by any wind. I would expect any CI to be able to control turnover so the fly floats down only the last few inches to the ground, not the last few feet. Hell, in a windy situation go ahead and slap it down, if you make it in you make it in.
Yes. "Drill it in" if windy. Might consider hovering if no wind. NOW: If the candidate uses the Mulson Wind cast to get the fly to the target without it being blown off track, we'd have to consider having him do it another way (?????) G.
The second most common thing I see is people who have no arc control. They can make great loops at about 40-45 feet but then they try to use the same arc and stroke for a 20 foot cast and a 55 foot cast. The first results in non-loops the second in tails.
Right. I'd consider that a prime fault.
G.
In regards to the possibility of cheating. If I suspected it in any way I have no problem moving the target a couple of feet either way. This could even be accomplished by moving the targets in a line perpendicular to the tape (centerline) of the course. Put a couple of targets about 8 feet off the side. That will change the distance enough to take the cheat out of play.
One way to do it. If I have a candidate who is doing fine on all tasks, I'll sometimes explore the depth of his/her knowledge on accuracy principles by placing a target only 12' or 15' away to see how this more difficult task is handled. I can't flunk if this task is not done well, but it gives me a better idea of the candidate's overall compentence. G.
Again, since we are testing a simple basic skill this should present no problem since they should be able to hit any distance up to the maximum.
My answer was based on whether the same format would be used in
the future for the CCI exam as on the MCCI exam. I did that because that's
the way I interpreted Walter's question.
G.
We discussed this
before as well but I'm not sure how it would be viewed - can the candidate ask
to
change the order of
some of the tasks?
The candidate does not have the right to change the order of the test. If they did it would be stated in the Bill of Rights. This kind of situation would definitely bring up favoritism challenges. The examiner does have the right to change the order.
The
following is my opinion and should be taken as such:
Regarding
the accuracy portion of the test. I no longer feel the candidate is expected to
cast at a level consistent with someone who I would consider a Master. If you
miss the first time, then you get to shorten or lengthen or readjust and make a
second presentation. If you miss that one you get to do it again, Come
on…beginners can do that if they can hold a loop. Especially if you enlarge the
last target. The target has been 30 inches for years and now they make it 48
inches. What are you going to tell all those people who failed that tasks by not
hitting a 30 inch target in the past? Better yet what about the rest of us who
had no problem hitting it because we cast at a Masters level.
It seems that time is diluting the strength of the program. When I took the MCCI test in 2001 there was no study guide, no sample questions or any other way to find out what the test was about. The distance was 90 feet not 85 and ANYTHING you were asked could count against you’re score.
Guy... Your opinion is well taken. I understand. My own way of looking at is it that that the CBOG has tried to maintain and increase the standards in many ways while attempting to make the task descriptions as clear as possible. Fairness to the candidate has been considered important as well as a reasonable amount of standardization without having the test become, "cookie cutter standard".
Of course, things have changed as the exam gets re-worked over the years. It wasn't so long ago that the candidate didn't have to know anything about Spey casting, for example. Casting with the "off hand" wasn't included, and the candidate didn't have to demonstrate three methods of making a tailing loop. We also felt that individual examiner's standards and methods were more arbitrary, too, years ago. Gordy
Guy
Manning
FFF Master Certified Casting
Instructor
Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo
Group
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From Richard Ross . My comments in his text in bold blue italics G. :-
Gordy,
I guess now is as good a time as any to come out of my shell and plunge in head-first. Please feel free to edit, editorialize or not publish this to the list at large as I find my way.
No reason to change anything. Happy to have you participate . Those who do, stand to learn the most. This is how we learn from one another.
First,
a long overdue hello to Ally and yet another chance to thank Ally and his lovely
wife for the hospitality they showed me when I visited with a friend after
British Fly Fair in 2003. I still have a wee bit of Edradour (scotch) and
many fine memories. Is the DVD finished? I was quite impressed with
what I saw as a work in progress.
Down to business. Ally’s comments strike home as I practice daily trying to undo 10 years of “death grip” on the rod and a tendency toward what we generally call “casting out of plane”, more accurately described here as “unwanted axial torque”. The unwanted axial torque (let’s shorten that to UAT) is particularly vexing for me. I can identify two possible sources, a slight sweeping motion of the rod into the accelerate-stop (power-snap? I’m not yet up on all of the standardized terminology) and/or a slight tendency to twist the wrist during the power-snap. So, how do we work at eliminating UAT when casting single-handed? I have tried the following and would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
As ally has indicated, the principles are the same for single and two handed casting in this regard. Good control of grip is important for both. G.
As I see it, the only time to have a tight grip with either is near and at the point of maximum rod load. If you twist the rod (torque in the rod's axis) during the, "power snap" you will get an unwanted curved layout. Practice to avoid this unless a curve is desired. Casting with the thumb on top as a style, Joan Wulff sometimes puts an orange marker on the caster's thumb and has the student, "squeeze to a stop" while observing this so that this thumbnail marker remains aligned with the target. Just one way of doing it. G.
1) Casting plane. Learning to cast in a strictly vertical plane seems to help. It’s not something we do often on the small streams of Pennsylvania and certainly not the way I learned to cast.
S It helps simply because it makes you less likely to place an unwanted twist in the cast. However, this is only one style of casting. A seasoned caster must know multiple styles to conform to the fishing and casting circumstances of the real world and be able to adapt. As one does this and uses casts in different rod planes..... control over unwanted twising must be learned. The more horizontal the rod plane (casting plane) the greater the need for exercising this control. Lefty Kreh describes this well in his new book, CASTING WITH LEFTY KREH. G.
2) Grip. It seems to be more difficult to apply UAT, especially in a vertical plane, when using an “index finger on top grip”. Perhaps this is why some casters who generally use another grip switch to an index finger on top grip when concerned about accuracy. Might the death grip also be a contributor to UAT when casting single-handed? I believe it very well might.
Perhaps.... but this doesn't work well with heavier systems. OK for short accurate casts using a 2 wt. outfit. Again: A matter of casting style. G.
3) Muscle memory. Stand with your casting shoulder 4-5” from a wall. Practice your casting motion with your hand lightly touching the wall through the entire casting arc. (A Hans Weilenmann suggestion.) Works OK for learning a strictly vertical rod plane style of casting. G
Thanks
for allowing me to participate,
Richard
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