Overpowered hook cast .... analysis

Jim Valle on Jeff Barefoot's, "brainteaser" question. (For those of you who are new to the Group, both Jim and Jeff are accomplished MCCI's with a wealth of teaching experience.)

Jeff Wrote:

Here's something to think about. You have just thrown an overpowered hook cast. Anatomically the style in which you did it, whether wrist flick, forearm flip, etc or whatever is not what we should focus on. If it lands to the left or right the loop plane had to be at least somewhat in the horizontal. That’s a given. So please let's not discuss any of those factors. Let's just say that an overpowered horizontal loop was created by one means or another.

Here's the issue in which I'm very interested in your opinion. OK the loop is overpowered and it's tight......let's say the angular velocity is an honest m......mmm one foot. OK, so now it's a one foot overpowered horizontal loop. Now imagine in slow motion that this loop is unrolling and unrolling. The fly leg is getting shorter and shorter and going from dynamic to static........now the leader [short and blunt taper] starts to turn over..... now there is only 36" of leader remaining to turn over......now there is only 24" of leader left to turn over...... and at last now there is only 12" left. [Now picture these freeze frame photographs in your mind] From 12" left then 6" then 3" then all the way to 0". Now due to an angular velocity of only 12" [hence the 12" loop] during the caster's input and a a surplus of energy that will no doubt not only straighten the leader but "more". Now it's this "more" that I'm very interested in discussing. How do we get a hooking layout with a 3 or 4 foot dogleg? How does a 12" overpowered loop swing completely into 36" to 48" layout in the opposite direction?

We know that it must be technically defined as a cast/aerial/mend but let's define it in more detail. What put the sharp radius of the hook there?

Let's stay focused on this one.

Jeff Barefoot

Gordy and Group,

What I see happening is:

The rod and line are overpowered and stopped at about 45 degrees to the target. (horizontal or vertical (tuck))

The rod goes through its normal unloading routine ..RSP --loop forms > counterflex > rebound cast is on its way …

However,

There is so much energy in the mass of the line it actually pulls the rod into a second loading… from the 45 degree stop position…

The rod then recovers in the opposite direction (180 degrees from the overload rod tip position, which redirects the momentum sideways) (Note: this direction is off to the side of the original cast direction ), causing an instantaneous back pull (tension) which swings the line further

This can be accentuated even more if …at the same time the caster adds a little back movement to the rod (hook casts etc.) (I think this back movement is also opposite to the second load direction ie off to the side which also adds to the swing)

Let’s see if that helps,

Jim V

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Answer from Mac Brown (MCCI) (Also note answers to the, "toothy citters" question):-

Hi Gordy,

Had a chat with Jeff the other day when I saw this posted. The line being held taunt even if we do not try a curve may still yield a small curve -this could be line stretch/ but more likely to be line shock. You may even try to throw it with say a cut-off 30' line and release it after the stop and it will yield little kick (shoot a scrap line unattached to the reel). All of the things that we do to enhance curves typically have one of two things/ or a combo of both. The first is it must have a reverse thrust (like Eric posted the other day about the tight grip at the stop-hence yielding greater rebound than a dampened stop); pulling the line after the stop -accelerates fly leg; backing up the rod hand; etc...all these things yield a momentum toward the opposite direction. Delayed shoots of line yield curves by throwing line past where we originally placed the cast-oops, that makes more than I intended to say originally. Rod actions play a huge role in the overall control but more importantly is rod positioning at the stop. Pointing the rod toward the direction of the cast typically may yield less of a curve. Perpendicular rod positioning yields greater curve because the rebound direction is opposite of the unrolling loop-back to the reverse thrust again just by the natural rebound of the rod. Even when subtle, (as in snaps, rolls, or any other letter of the alphabet drawn with the rod tip) these yield a high level of control over the loop.

The second one is easy to describe because it is the motion that the rod tip draws for delivery casts-in fishing examples common of the eastern streams this would include many ellipses for the stroke. Play around with large circles to flattened ellipses and where the momentum's increase/ decrease and we may throw the same curves without reverse thrust.

As stated above, we may throw them in combo or simply from the delivery stroke.

In response to Ken's post-the cast did not run out of energy-it had too much to begin with when we are breaking the speed of sound and turning the corner. Hence I do not agree. If it truly ran out of energy it would have never caused the line to become straight (negative cast).

Now to answer the question, the loop had excess energy that had to go somewhere-often it pops turning the tight radius;hence breaking the speed of sound. Its path of travel will become reversed in the same loop plane (fly leg switches from one side of the rod leg to the other). So the 12" loop that became a 4' curve can happen. Was there rebound, tight grip, tug on the line, back the elbow, etc.. we could take the same 12" loop and turn it into whatever result we want when we do some or a combination of things to enhance it greater.

Very sorry to hear about Tom White; I feel fortunate to have met him last year in Bozeman at the late night casting sessions.

Gordy, glad you are back getting things rolling again.

On the toothy critters, I have had much better success playing around with spectra for Muskie here in the Carolinas. I like the post on titanium wire though and was hoping someone could post some brands, numbers, where you get it? I lost a nice muskie using mono last year for smallmouth on the little T river.

Cheers, mac

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Mac.....

I'll research the Ti. wire.

I agree with your line of reasoning all the way.

Obviously, this is too complicated a study to get into the brain of any student other than a very advanced one.

In teaching this cast, I oversimplify the explanation as follows:

" Use a horizontal rod plane, Throw it hard to the left and stop way early, then quickly throw the line to the right."

This yields a, "cast / mend". The cast is to the left and the mend to the right. The mend is done early ... before the loop has unrolled and timed to add significantly to the effect of rebound after counterflex.

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