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  • Kyte-Moran study in light of modern methods of analysis.



    Walter & Group......

    This one should be carefully studied and digested by all !   It includes an attachment in which Bruce Richards comments on the 1993 Kyte-Moran study of "Good vs. Elite Casters" in the light of the more advanced fly casting study techniques of today.  Thanks goes to David Lambert (MCCI) for providing us with it.

    A LOT of information, here. :-

    Gordy:

    Thought you and possibly the group might find interesting this exchange

    I had with Bruce regarding comparing results from the Kyte-Moran Study

    vs his Casting Analyzer.

    A recent casting group thread regarding the early-90s research and

    subsequent Fly Fisherman article by Kyte and Moran got me wondering

    whether the conclusions drawn from this study (made with now 15-year-old

    technology) were supported by newer studies conducted with newer testing

    instruments (e.g.: Casting Analyzer) and more sophisticated analyzing

    software. I emailed Bruce Richards and posed that question to him

    Do the results new and old support each other? Any revelations,

    surprises, or negations?

     

    Below Bruce's reply: (Note his remarks follow asterisks. Also sent as

    attachment. Feel free to remove any personal stuff if you like. D )

    > >>>David . . .

     

    Now, that Kyte-Moran article, which I still consider to

    be the best casting

    article written to date....... Our study of thousands of casts using the

    analyzer supports most of their observations and conclusions. We have a

    couple of minor areas of disagreement in areas where more accurate

    measurement of rod movement than they had available are required. Because

    they couldn't make these measurements, in a couple areas, long held

    misperceptions clouded their view of what was really happening, but I'd say

    that 95% of their work is right on the money. I've made some comments after

    each point giving our perspective on each..... But truly a great article,

    one that most didn't pay enough attention to at the time, in my

    opinion.....

    Looking forward to seeing you again somewhere David, hopefully there will

    be time for some fishing, and/or scotch!

    Regards,

    Bruce

     

    SUMMARY OF PAPER BY AL KYTE AND GARY MORAN, Entitled: GOING FOR

    DISTANCE..GOOD VS. ELITE CASTERS

    From: /Fly Fisherman……May 1993/

    (This study compared "GOOD" distance casters with "ELITE" (best)

    distance casters from a video analysis of the world’s best casters where

    the video was warped down and comparisons to elite vs good casters were

    drawn and measured. This based on video analysis by an professor of

    education and a bio-mechanics professor.)

    */****Bruce Richard’s comments/*

    Question: What do the elite casters do to achieve greater distance with

    the overhead cast.?

    Answers:-

    1.The elite casters straightened the back cast line more completely….and

    did so with noticeably smaller loops.

    ****This straighter line is a result of a straighter tip path, which

    comes from constant acceleration, which is the key thing we measure.

    2.They stopped the rod more abruptly on the backcast.

    *****We measure the "stop" very accurately, and the best casters have

    great stops.

    3.They bent the rod tip back farther on the backcast.

    *****This also comes from a straight line, straight tip path, and

    constant acceleration. We also measure this rod bend indirectly by

    looking at how much the rod rebounds after the stop. Great casters have

    higher rebound percentages.

    4.They moved the rod tip through a more straight path during the loading

    phase.

    5.They achieved maximum rod bend just before the stop on the forward cast.

    *****True, but all casts, good or bad, achieve max rod bend just before

    the stop.

    6.Their rod hands moved in a slightly downward path.

    *****We don’t measure this but I don’t consider it to be critical to any

    cast, it is more a matter of style and cast trajectory than anything else.

    7.Their most common error was to apply power too soon. (ie. They applied

    their maximum force too early in the stroke.)

    *****I would disagree with this, doubt it is what really happened. In

    nearly 100% of casts we have analyzed that weren’t quite perfect, the

    reason was that rod rotation started too soon and too slowly. This

    "early rotation" raises the rod tip and shortens the arc and makes it

    difficult to make a great cast. This early, slow rotation is necessarily

    followed by much faster rotation, which is almost certainly what they

    saw when assuming "They applied their maximum force too early in the

    stroke". It can appear that power is applied too early, but in reality,

    this power is always preceeded by subtle, slow rotation that is the real

    cause of the problem.

    8.Elite casters "imparted more bend in the rod, and did so with better

    timing."

    *****More bend for the power applied, very true. Again, benefits of a

    straight line from straight tip path, and very constant acceleration. We

    accurately measure both rod arc and "smoothness" of acceleration, these

    two things together determine tip path. Timing is a natural, instinctive

    thing that most casters acquire once they are beyond the beginners stage.

    9.They had a low release angle averaging only 6 degrees above the

    horizontal.

    ****They were making long casts, varying from horizontal very much would

    drive the backcast into the ground.

    10.They moved the rod through a wider angle.

    ******More rod bend requires a wider rod arc to maintain a straight tip

    path tip path. Again, we directly measure both rod arc and rod angular

    acceleration, and indirectly, rod bend.

    11.They did this by allowing the rod to drift back and down "….an

    additional 10 to 15 degrees after the stop of the backcast."

    *****Classic drift, which we see in all top casters and is directly

    measured, at least the most important rotational part.

    12.Their stroke length was greater. (Stroke length defined as "The

    distance the casters hand moves the rod butt toward the target.")

    ******The rotational aspect of the cast is much more important than hand

    translation, but top casters use every motion they have to optimize the

    cast. In this case, the elite casters added more hand translation to

    allow a longer "drag", further straightening the line before the stroke

    to improve efficiency and improve the following loop.

    13.They used the longer casting strokes and wider casting arcs IN THE

    SAME AMOUNT OF TIME and so achieved greater line speed….and the same

    level of force and rod tip speed over a greater distance, yielding a

    total application of force which was greater.

    *****With the equipment they used to measure all this it would have been

    very difficult to make the above statement with scientific accuracy, but

    it is almost certainly true. We can precisely measure acceleration, peak

    rod speed, casting arc, etc., but don’t measure the length of the hand

    motion. Since that is a relatively slow motion compared to rod rotation,

    it is easy to see, and adds relatively little to the cast.

    14.Elite casters made greater use of their body mass and musculature

    than did the good casters.

    *****This comes from training and practice, as with any good athlete.

    15."The most effective haulers pulled the line back a greater distance

    primarily during the final, accelerated stages of loading. Thus they

    stopped the haul and released the line farther back, as well."

    ******As you know, we’ve also developed a "haul analyzer" and have been

    able to do some preliminary studies of hauling. We know that the best

    casters haul longer, and that they stop hauling right at rod straight

    position when the loop forms. Haul speed directly matches rod speed.

    16.They combined styles…."They moved the elbow out to the side of the

    body during the backcast which opened the way for inward rotation of the

    shoulder. Then they moved the elbow ahead of the shoulder during the

    forward cast, which enabled them to use a strong elbow extension as well.

    ******The analyzer measures rod motion only and we can’t draw any

    conclusions about caster style from analyzer charts. But, from examining

    thousands of casts now we know that regardless of style, top casters

    move the rod the same. When making the same cast, there is little

    difference in Lefty’s chart, and Joan’s. Their bodies move quite

    differently, but the rod doesn’t. There is a significant difference in

    hand/rod translation, but since the same cast can be made with this

    difference it is obviously not a critical motion, but more a matter of

    casting style.

    17.They used an "educated wrist motion during the final acceleration of

    the stroke, "averaging 45 degrees; 10 degrees more fore the elite group.

    ******This goes with their observation of a wider casting arc for elite

    casters.

    18.In most cases, the final 20 to 30 degrees of wrist action quickly

    tilted the butt of the rod forward, just prior to the stop. (What I’d

    call a "wrist flip.")

    ****Al and Gary weren’t able to measure actual rod angular acceleration

    so had to base this comment on visual observation. Especially in the

    early 90’s it was widely believed that rod acceleration was slow at

    first, fast later, which is what this implies. We now know that,

    although it may look like acceleration is slow at first, fast later, the

    best casters accelerate the rod at a very constant rate throughout the

    stroke.

    19.With the best casts, the rod butt stopped ABRUPTLY so the butt of the

    rod moved hardly 1 degree. The less successful casters couldn’t hold the

    rod as steady.

    ****** We see the same thing, the best casters have the quickest stops.

    We accurately measure both acceleration and deceleration of the rod.>>>>>>>

    Bruce

     

     

     

     

     

    Attachment: ATT00009.doc
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