Shooting line v. Line carried / Gitzet fish / Casting practice

Gordy,

Generally when I have people setting goals for shooting line there are two important questions. One is back cast versus front cast shoot. My experience is that back cast shoots are usually much less than forward cast shoots (at least 50% less).

The other question is multi-factorial about loop shape and trajectory and how much that improves when they come down from their maximum carry to their most-efficient comfortable carry.

I define the latter in performance terms. What length of a given rod & line combo, can they repeatedly aerialize with a tight back cast loop that does not drop lower than the tip of the stopped rod? This definition usually encompasses most of the their casting strengths and weaknesses in a practical way. It also represents, in most cases, the starting point for their longest shoots both in terms of percent of line carried and total shoot. (Total shoot is length of line in final back cast subtracted from distance from feet to fly of delivery cast aka casting distance.)

Having placed these issues into play, I expect to be able to maximally shoot 50% to 80% of line carried up to the head length plus rod length ONE HANDED. When I add a haul/double haul it really only increases a smallish amount, say to 70% to 100% of the line carried BUT, I generally find that the increased line speed of good double hauls gives me tighter loops and increases the amount carried, maybe to the point of overhang ,usually less than one rod length of overhang. This considerably increases total casting distance.

I have my students set a goal of shooting 50% more than they carry at a minimum on forward casts. My better students are encouraged to be nearer 80%. These are for carrying no significant overhang with typical off-the-shelf fishing lines in practice settings.

Your advanced caster described should be able to shoot to 100 feet (2/3 of the carry added for the shoot or 40 feet)
I would encourage them to shorten the carry and increase the line speed into the shoot to get past 100 feet as they should increase mass : velocity benefits with less overhang. If their timing was "on", line speed high and their loops were tight & in plane with the described overhang, they have the makings of a 130 foot cast, though. I have done it but not consistently enough to place a bet.

Gary Eaton

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Gary....

You qualify your answer well in calling attention to the back cast shoot. I neglected to mention that when I framed my question.

I can see getting those distances only when the caster shoots into the back cast beyond the 60' he's carrying while false casting. Without that added back cast shoot, neither I nor my students (or the MCI candidates I coach ) have been able to achieve even close to a 130 foot cast. Without the back cast shoot prior to the delivery cast, with a 7 wt. outfit adding a full 2/3 of the carry has not been realistic for us.

Joan Wulff's description of her distance cast using a back cast shoot is a good one....."shoot a little on the forward cast, shoot a lot on the back cast". That back cast shoot allows her to, "carry" line well into the level shooting line behind the rear taper, ergo quite a bit of overhang for that one last back cast.

One of the biggest problems I've seen with MCCI candidates practicing their distance casts is that they sometimes carry more line when false casting than they can handle well with tight, high speed loops. Once that happens, they overpower the delivery cast as they begin to sense a lack of full control when the back cast loop widens. They may get close to the target, but the layout is poor even if they do.

To solve this problem, I have them false cast with ever increasing lengths of line out to the point where the loops are less than perfect with high loop speed. Then I have them back off about 2' and I mark the line at that point with a small nail knot of 4 lb. mono. They can feel this while casting and if they don't, it clicks in the guides if they false cast past it. I don't have them false cast with any more line than that... but do have them make a back cast shoot on that last back cast prior to the delivery cast. Works well.

If the layout remains poor because of a lack of smooth application of powe, mal-tracking (or both) I use a bit of exaggeration which I learned from Lefty Kreh in saying, "For your next cast, use no more power for your delivery cast than you did for your previous false cast." To that I sometimes add:

"Make your haul faster .... let your haul be the accelerator".

These are really Lefty's words. I remember them well as he was coaching me many years ago while casting from a skiff in the Bahamas. They seem to get into most student's brains. Worked for me.

Gordy

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Good morning Gordy. The rule of thumb is you can shoot 50% of what you carry. If the caster can carry 60’ of line than he should be able to shoot an additional 30’. This is of course just a rule of thumb.

Regards,

Bill Toone

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Bill....

YES. You get a gold star ! (The caster can likely cast about 90' of fly line.) Good short answer.

To pre-empt messages about much lighter and much heavier outfits, I'll point out that this is a very approximate rule of thumb which pretty well holds for mid range fly tackle ........differs when using very light tackle such as a 3 wt. outfit, and goes out of range, again, if using shooting heads with a 12 wt. outfit.

Most casters as well as instructors are surprised to find that they really can't actually shoot much more than an actual measured 50 percent of the line carried. Of course, the total distance to the fly will be greater due to the additional length of the leader and that of the rod. In the example I provided, that could mean a total distance of 90' (fly line), + 8' of leader, + 9' of fly rod (extended toward the target) for a total distance to the fly of about 105 - 110' or a bit less, provided the layout is straight.

Gordy

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