Shooting line / Choice of rod length

You asked for clarification on these -

2) to increase rod load and 5) to reduce the needed stroke length and rod arc while keeping good loops. I don't propose both of these are necessarily happening on the same cast.

A haul increases load on the rod. Load = Bend. The increase is not as significant as the increase in line speed but is still a factor to add energy to the propelled line as the rod unloads. Further load equals further power. Most importantly, it theoretically loads the rod further - that is further than it was loaded with only the angular acceleration. It is implied that the load is being pushed further toward the rod butt where the more flex resistant portions reside. The loading of the resistant parts provide more potential energy than loading the thinner (less resistant to flex) tip for subsequent unloading and transferring energy to propel the line. Hence my assertion that the haul is more effective when applied to the already loaded rod.

When the haul is applied to a different cast where perhaps the opportunity to rotate and accelerate is limited by anything (here is a great test question for you, Gordy). Things like too whippy a rod, limited space, the old shoulder injury, mismatched line to rod, etc can leave you with a cast to make that benefits from specialized techniques. I have had many a cast that was underpowered or limited be "salvaged" by a well-timed haul. It may prevent unloading of the rod for a few milliseconds or increase the rod bend to more like what I would get if I did not have that tree branch limiting my cast. In fact, most of us old bamboo swingers rely on a haul to sweeten the cast because the tip action alone, without a haul, leaves a wider than ideal loop. I like to think of this use as replacing line hand function for rod hand when rod hand capacity is inhibited. So, a haul can help me generate a rod load when the typical arc/stroke is not available. (Actually, hand only casting may be the ultimate application of this principle as there is virtually no rod arc or stroke. I know guys who have cast 90 feet without a rod, but not me).The benefit is that I can generate a loop without as much rod movement. I would emphasize that the haul, like rotation of the rod, is of greater value when applied later in the stroke, through the stop.

----On shoots -- with thanks to Troy Miller---

Troy has elaborated much of what I implied on my initial answer on the shoot. Again, a little lack of clarity on definition of "carry" is mixed with the assumption by me and inclusion by Troy, that the rod and leader length are included in the total cast distance.

I would happily demonstrate shoots to a distance of 80 to 100% of the line carried with my medium fast action 7 weight rod and my XXD line. Further, I can pretty regularly get 80% or more, shoots one-handed if not trying to tolerate overhang (much as Troy describes in his conditions for optimum shoot). My experience is that the key factors, as previously described are 1) Very fast, tight back cast loop in perfect plane, 2) high back cast with the cast unrolling above the rod tip height, 3) purposeful drift pointed into the unrolling back cast loop and 4) very prolonged early translation phase (javelin throw) with late rotation into the stop.

It may take me a few false casts to get the back cast loop I find ideal and I couldn't have Chuck Easterling picking my delivery cast for me (no offense, Chuck). I would prefer neutral climate conditions so we are just dealing with technique issues. If I get everything right with clean line and cooperation of the fates of casting, I have thrown one-hand casts over 95 feet when carrying only 40 feet on the final back cast with no back cast shoot. My students who are upper extremity amputees have lined-up for the one-hand shoot classes and try to get competitions with the 'disadvantaged' two armed casters in a one-hand shoot competition. It is a lot of fun and drives a lot of students to sharpen up their basic cast.

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Gary .... Brief comments: 1. I think you have stated this clearly. Many really accomplished distance casters can over ride the, "50% rule". Especially if the interpretation of, "line carried" is line actually carried out of the rod tip. 2. I doubt that Chuck picked Troy's delivery cast.

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Question from Michael Jones:

Gordy:

This is more a guides question than an MCCI question:

The recent thread on using an 8' rod over a 9' for SMBass made my mind

percolate about rod length vs. accuracy. Curious if one generally has

greater accuracy or diminished accuracy as they drop down in rod

length from 9'? I realize that there are a boat load of variables

including distance, line weight, etc., but wonder if in your

experience, say with snook, or river hopper fishing, where slapping

the fly right up against something is important, there is an optimal

length for greater accuracy?

Michael Jones

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Michael: In salt water fly fishing, I have reasons other than accuracy for chosing different rod lengths. In a tarpon fishing scenario where I'm not targeting individual fish, but blind casting repeatedly at dawn or in a worm hatch, the shorter rod is less fatiguing for me and gives me an advantage when fighting a large tarpon. I had exactly that situation this morning. (Landed an 80 lb. fish on an 8 wt. system during a shrimp hatch..... was in to much smaller fish when this big fellow took my fly.)

A 10' rod and an 8' rod may weigh exactly the same on a scale. Because some of the weight of the longer rod is farther out from the hand, it will feel much heavier.

When fishing for tuna or billfish, the choice of a short rod with a powerful butt section has nothing to do with casting, but is strictly for the fish fighting ability. That is usually short range, "chuck-and-duck" casting, anyway.

With big powerful fish, the longer the rod the harder it is to land the fish. Virtually impossible to land a big tarpon when using a 15' Spey rod (without unduly fatiguing the fish to exhaustion.)

I prefer a longer rod when fishing bonefish and permit on the flats for two reasons .... firstly, the bit of "protection" it gives my light tippet in the event the critter is large and, "explodes" violently after taking the fly. Second, as the fish makes a long run out on the flat, I hold that longer rod way up high to help the line clear obstructions.

Sometimes a shorter rod is preferable for fishing snook in the mangroves where casting room is compromised. Also, the short rod will save you a fish once in a while, when you have to try to keep the snook out of the mangrove roots because it is easier to apply all the pressure the tippit will withstand as you attempt to turn the fish.

Back when I was fishing for records (I don't do that any longer) I'd chose the longer, limber fly rod as extra protection for a light designated class tippet.

That really doesn't give you the answer you seek. Frankly, when I stick with a rod length range between 10' and 8', I have not paid strict attention to any difference in accuracy. Perhaps I should do that.

Gordy

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From Craig Buckbee :

gordy,

al buhr commented to me, while in a spey clinic of all places, that if i

wanted to learn to cast far (read: #5 distance competition) then one thing i

should pracice is carrying as much line as possible WITHOUT hauling. get out

to where i'm comfortable making good smooth tight loops and work out more

line in small increments but only when i'm in consistently in control of the

prior/shorter length.

craig

ps _ never before heard tom white's comment on leaving a rod strung up to get

one to practice more, but it's been proven here at my home...

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Craig .... Good advice. Bruce Richards has advise the same thing in his Master Prep courses. G.

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