Walter & Group.........
I'm back .... at least for the next 4 days.
Al Crise sent this so we could see his comments on a long string of casting messages. His comments are in maroon color.
Below, Ally comments in Al's text in red. I follow with notes in green italics. ...... Gordy
Purpose
of the haul is to: increase line speed./ To reduce the power needed from the rod
hand only, sharing the work with the line hand. / Increase line
speed by reducing the loop size,/ Control,. / Remove slack from a poor
cast or loss of control.
First
let me give you MY Rules of the Haul or Double
haul.
1] You
can not make a good haul until you have the line tight from the line
hand to the fly.
2] The
haul does not start until the rod is loaded,
3] The haul should match the Rod TIP during "recovery" This implies that the haul continues after the cast has finished which is OK and agrees with my previous comment re haul timing “The haul must start before the cast stops but must not stop before the cast stops”. Agree.
The recovery of the tip is from the loaded to Rod Straight Position This happens after the Stop of the hand the rod is moving faster at his time. It can be just the slowing of the rod so that the tip can recover. The haul can start before this but it does little to help the line speed and often causes troubles.
4] The rod gives the line direction the haul gives the added line speed. Lefty likes to look at the rod exercising the mechanics of the cast while the haul is the, "accelerator".
5] Tailing loops are most often cause by hauling too soon. No! – in the case of a tailing loop occurring with a haul its generally because the haul finished too soon causing deceleration of the line and partial recovery of the rod tip and hence a concave path. A haul can be made right through a cast but must not finish until the cast has finished i.e. rod is stopped. I agree with Ally, here. ( These comments by Al and Ally reminded me of the fact that poor haul timing can result in a tailing loop.)
I agree that not maintaining the speed of the haul will let the tip unload. THAT is way I say to match the tip. If the haul is started to soon or with too much speed then that can not be maintained or Acceleration is lost. I will say that if you are loading the rod with the haul ;Super hard and fast;' you can load or bend the rod deeper. If not maintained until the loop is formed at RSP you will have the Tailing loop. Slowing the haul will let the rod unload also.
6] The Haul should be down the rod axis.
7]
The Give back must follow but not forced up the
rod
8] The
line hand must move away from the rod not the rod away from the line
hand.
Now the
why I teach this way.
1) Hauling is often use to pull slack Learn to make a better cast. Getting the rod leg straight from the previous cast or pick up. I don’t understand this! Let me try to clarify this. I think what Al means is that one of the functions of the haul is to take up unwanted slack. Beginners tend to use it for that purpose. This is one reason most of us would prefer to teach the haul later when the student is able to make good basic casting strokes with a minimum of slack. Fits with Lefty's comment: "Poor casters use their hauls to throw their mistakes farther." Al's second sentence does not compute in my brain.
Correct
Gordy
2) The haul is most effective if done while the rod tip is in recovery, This is later in the stroke. This seems to imply that the haul can be started at the stop – I doubt if I can do that! In my view haul speed must be additive to line speed generated by the rod tip and therefore ideally max haul speed should occur at max tip speed which admittedly is just after the stop but within a tenth of a second of the stop and I can’t haul that fast! I'm not sure if Al really meant to start the haul at the stop or RSP. He may have meant to carry it into counterflex.
If we could haul just during the recovery it would be the most effective. Of course we do haul before and up to RSP. The speed of the haul should match the rod tip, In that is would be the fastest during the recovery.
3) The rod's tip is what we need to match. As the amount of load is changed the haul is changed. As the rod's action is different the haul length is adjusted to match the rod's Tip Travel. To gain the most from the haul it is done while the tip is in recovery until RSP. Long tip travel = long haul. Fast tip recovery = short haul. What is “Tip Travel”? How long is long? How short is short? I frequently do demonstrations with a walking stick as a rod; it has a very fast action, so fast that I can’t see it! The secret to casting it well is to make the haul acceleration exponential and as long as possible despite it’s extremely fast and short tip recovery. In our Glossary Committee, we've been looking at TIP TRAVEL as the entire movement of the rod tip during the cast. No final agreement, yet, on language as to it's beginning, but most of us look at its conclusion as at loop formation.
4) Forcing the rod to travel past RSP will only open the loop. Stopping the rod and the haul at RSP gives a tight loop. Most beginners will move the rod in a greater arc to get the line out. or will over load the rod at the end of the cast causing the tip to duck or travel in a concaved path. (tailing loop) Moving the tip downwards at the end of a cast is a fairly certain way to avoid a tailing loop. If max loading is at the end of the cast it’s practically impossible to make a tailing loop because what we usually do is to instinctively relax the rod axis at the angle of max counter flex. Agree. I look at this as a, "bandaid fix". It works, but sometimes at the expense of casting efficiency as it opens the loop when a tight loop may be desired.
I was trying to give a instructors look at the cast. What you will see is great tip travel that what is needed for the amount of line out of the rod. With the added speed of the haul the effect is to 'tear' open the loop. Jamming the power to the rod at the stop is a normal fault for casters trying for distance.
5) The
cause of tailing loops are the concaved rod tip path. This can be by trying
to add load to the rod too soon and not being able to maintain this load the
concaved path is seen. This also just pulls line down the rod that has to be
feed back or shot. Second cause is the failure to get the line tight or a short
stroking before the haul.
6)
Pulling down the axis of the rod reduces the drag on the rod guides, Gives the
hand a free travel path. Follows the natural flow of the line down and back
up.
7)
There must be give back of the line after the haul or you have just pulled in
the line for no reason. The give back is after the loop has formed and is
traveling pulling the rod leg out of the rod's tip. I watch for slack between
the line hand and stripper guide.
8)
Pulling of the line must be done by the line hand moving away from the rod
hand/rod. If not, you are just sliding the rod up the rod not increasing the
speed of rod leg. The technique of sliding the rod along the line is used by
some casters, Joan Wulff uses it for distance casting and done correctly it can
produce more rapid haul acceleration but I would not encourage beginners to try
it! Yes. Joan calls this, "slide
loading".
If the slideloading is letting the rod hand move away from the line hand. What advantage does this give? I shortens the length of the haul for the line out. Now if you are using the Slideloading as Setting up or staging for the cast. The rod should drift back. If you have back more line. You have to make a longer stroke greater arc.
I do
not feel that the haul should add any rod load. It does if done too soon.
Waiting until the rod's tip is in recovery it might delay the recovery not bend
it deeper. Now if you have the line tied off and try to haul all you do is bend
the rod back to the stationary line mass. Where when we haul on a moving mass
adding velocity we are increasing the Kinetic energy of the line. Hence
line speed. line speed, line speed.
When we can make a cast with a broom stick or the one foot rod That I use that has no rod advantage we are not getting a rod load we are just increasing the line speed. This is correct but if hauling increases line speed it also increases tension (you can feel that) and hence the rod bend does deepen but how significantly this deepening contributes to a distance cast is debatable, I imagine a yard or two perhaps. Makes sense. In the case of the broomstick, however, it seems to me that for practical purposes very little real, "load" is realized despite the increase in tension. This likely would not yield much input from the miniscule release of latent energy in the rod.
Casting trivia ? - the front end of most fly lines and leaders are tapered
to help the loop roll on out, i.e. one has heavier line continuously rolling
out lighter line. The question is - when making longer casts the reverse
situation occurs - skinny line rolling out fatter line. How does one cope?
Should you elect to respond to this question there are likely more to
follow.
Keep in touch
Verlon
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Verlon & Kirk...
NOT a trivial question at all.
Any time you are trying to have, "skinny line" turn over or control, "fat line" you have a real casting problem.
The mass profile of the thin line simply cannot deliver enough energy to the thicker and heavier line to turn it over or even control it for mending,etc.
This is precisely why fly lines made for distance casting have much longer bellys.
If you have too much thin running line out of the rod tip while false casting, you lose control of the heavier line ahead of it. Loops tend to come apart, the line tends to fall, and distance suffers as well as the layout.
The distance between the rod tip and the thick part of the rear taper of the fly line is referred to as OVERHANG. Advance casters can carry more of this overhang (thin running line) than less experience casters.... But there is a limit.
One casting trick when trying for distance with a short head fly line, is to false cast with only a small amount of overhang. Then on the final back cast prior to the delivery cast, shoot line behind you thus momentarily increasing overhang after which the delivery cast is made.
When roll casting, overhang becomes a really big problem ... Because you don't have the ability to shoot line back. It becomes impossible to make a decent roll cast with too much thin line out of the rod tip for the same reason, ie. That thin line can't control the heavy line in front of it !
Gordy