"Climbing loop" / Tension; history

Walter & Group......

John Wilson on the, "climbing loop" :-

Gordon:
 
For what it's worth it is my personal belief that a climbing loop is the result of a low back cast.
 
John

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John ...

Frankly, I think you may be correct.  Following the, "180 degree rule", if we make a low back cast and follow with a high trajectory forward cast, the loop climbs.

We can also do it with an upward curving power snap (vertical curve cast). 

Problem is that there are those who believe that the loop can climb even when we cast with both back cast and forward casts made parallel to the ground / water.

I visit this, becuse I really don't know if that is, indeed, possible ..... and if it is, I'd like to know the mechanism behind the phenomenon.  We just may all learn something new, here.

Gordy

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From David Lambert:

Gordy,, hey --

Climbing loop thread is very interesting.  With a tip of the hat to Ol' Al's exercise with bead chains:  Another more visible loop and loop morph (with less substantial drag/friction than a floor produces) can be achieved using Mel's Fly-o (a name M. Lord originated, which Mel did not whole heartedly endorse, BTW).

Hope to see you all at the Lakeland, FL FFF expo.

David Lambert
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David...      Yes.  As you know, Joan Wulff should get the credit for the idea of the, "yarn rod" concept.  She called hers, the, FLY-O.   Tim Rajeff has come up with another very good variation which is markete via his ECHO company, called, "THE ECHO MICRO- PRACTICE ROD."    My own take is that this one is a real advancement on the others.

Using these, however, I cannnot make the loop climb when casting parallel to the ground unless I make a vertical curve.

Gordy

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Bead chain experiment, by Al Crise:

Howdy Gordy

 Attached are 4 photos of the climbing loop. I moved the pen long the tile edge as my rod path. You can see I had to move it out of the way of the line. Did not want to "hit the tip".

Note that the loop will rise after it passes the pen. Then flip over a the end of the cast. This happened almost every time.

ol Al

Allen R. Crise

 

FFF-Master Casting Instructor
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Adaptive Fly Fishers
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Comments:   Check out the attachments which I've included as jpg photos.

Interesting, but I'm left having to assume that you made a straight line path of the pencil, "rod" parallel with the tile grout.  Also, whether this mechanisms really represents what happens with a cast done against air resistance.

 

Gordy

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More from Ally Gowans on the use of tension in past casting history :

Hi Gordy,

 

I am pleased that you found the Grant piece of interest. Since you mentioned your grandfather’s method I thought that this might also raise a smile. (I haven’t mentioned the source because I would have to find the original material in my files to do that).

 

Another record which he claimed was that of casting 74 yards overhead upon the grass. This being done at Kingston-on-Thames during his previously mentioned casting exhibition, and was duly measured by the judges. It was undertaken solely to prove his contention that a rod which could lift 50 yards of line on water could lift a further 20 yards on grass. The line was laid out on the grass then cast overhead. To my mind, one of the amazing features in Mr Grant’s exploits is his small physique. It was a very different matter, when Mr John Enright appeared on the riverside; a strongly-built, burly man, he looked the part, yet his record of 49 yards 1 foot was beaten. Mr Grant was asked at Kingston to what he attributed his great manual dexterity in handling a fly rod. He is reported to have answered – “When I was a youngster I went in for forestry; swinging a seven-pound axe is the finest training you can have.” Will future casting experts emulate Mr Grant and the great Mr Gladstone and proceed to chop down trees? I wonder if it is really necessary. If so, then casting schools must be equipped with forests and axes! (Principals of casting schools please note!”)

 

 

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

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Comment by Guy Manning:-

I had the unique experience of casting a 3 piece, 15 foot Grant vibration made in the first decade of the 20^th century. It belongs to a member of The Golden Gate Casting Club. The owner brought it to the Spey-O-Rama last year and let me play with it for a bit.  It was kind of an emotional few minutes because I really felt I had history in my hands.

 

Unfortunately we were using a modern 10 wt line on it so it was difficult to know how it really cast due to the small ring guides that would choke the line. The rod was in absolutely beautiful shape. All of the original winds were intact and the finish in good shape. It weighed at least 2 lbs and was very slow and bent all the way to the handle. What I remember most was that when I stopped the rod it kept on going… I took some photos of it.

 

I personally would love to read anything he wrote.

 

 

Guy Manning

FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor

Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group

www.castflys.net

 

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