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  • [SPAM] RE: New information / casting mechanics



    Title: Message
    Walter...
     
    Thanks.  That's real information.
     
    If I remove the personal paragraphs, may I have your permission to use it for a Group message ?
     
    That nipper will be a PLUS !!!!!  How often I've snipped leader tags only to have the wind blow them down in the water or into my skiff so they eventually foul up the rotor in my bilge pumps !
     
    Gordy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:59 PM
    To: Gordon Hill
    Subject: Re: New information / casting mechanics

    Hey Gordy!
     
    Once the slack was taken out of the line the bend in the rod would be directly related to the acceleration. If the acceleration is constant then the rod bend should stay the same.
    Since the force is equal to mass times acceleration (F = m x a), and the mass and acceleration are constant, then the force is constant so the bend should stay the same. There
    will be a minor increase in resistance due to skin drag as the speed/velocity increase but it would be negligible.
     
    I got started on the Loop article but had to put it aside due to an abnormally high load at work for the past couple of months. I should have a good couple of weeks around the
    Christmas break when I can concentrate on it and get it done. I managed to file one more patent - this one is for a line nipper with a means to capture the nipped off line. Should
    make a great promotional item. Also a great way do dispose of dental floss and similar materials. I expect to file another patent in the next month or two.
     
    I've also been running an Instruction for Instructors course which has been a great experience. Even more fun than teaching beginners. I have a couple of guides and people who
    have been doing instruction so the discussion has been excellent. I'm learning as much as I'm teaching.
     
    There are a number of expressions that could be used to describe an acceleration which isn't constant. Mathematicians might talk about a non zero third order derivative. Physicists
    would probably call it time dependent or time varying acceleration. Accelerated acceleration would also be an acceptable term but this would imply a constant accelerated acceleration,
    e.g. acceleration at time t would be defined by an equation of the form a(t) = mt + b where m and b are constants.
     
    The shuttle would be time dependent acceleration at launch. Basically they fire up the rockets and they are full on from the time they are started to the time the fuel is exhausted so the force
    remains constant BUT the mass of the shuttle decreases significantly due to the burnt off fuel so the acceleration increases. In space a short rocket burn would be considered constant
    acceleration (or very close to it) because the change in mass with retro rockets is relatively small.
     
    I'm looking forward to having more time available to get back to some of our discussions.
     
    Cheers
     
    Walter
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 7:02 PM
    Subject: RE: New information / casting mechanics

    Walter......
     
    I had to ponder that for a while.  I wonder if counteracting the inertia of the fly line wouldn't bend the rod more even if acceleration of the rod tip remains the same (???????????)   Also, perhaps some, "skin drag" ?
     
    A lot to learn, here.
     
    Did you ever get your LOOP article written ?
     
    Another question I can't answer:   If you have acceleration at a given rate, say x ft./sec./sec, and you increase this to, say x + 5 feet /sec/sec, what would you call this ?    ..... ? increased rate of acceleration? .... My (apparently misguided), "accelerated acceleration ?  ....? greater acceleration ? ....  seems there must be a term to describe this.
     
    I wonder if this is what goes on when the space shuttle is launched..... or is this, "constant acceleration" with an unchanging rate ?
     
    Gordy
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Walter Simbirski [mailto:simbirsw@xxxxxxx]
    Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 10:15 AM
    To: Gordon Hill
    Subject: Re: New information / casting mechanics

    Gordy,
     
    That would mean that once any slack has been taken up the bend in the rod remains constant throughout the stroke...
     
    Walter
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 4:07 PM
    Subject: New information / casting mechanics

     

    Walter & Group...........

    This is an important, "heads up" message on fly casting mechanics.

    During the past few weeks we've been doing some FFF committee work which has brought to the forefront some new information derived from the study of findings using the Casting Analyzer by Bruce Richards and Noel Perkins (Engineering Dept. U. of Mich.)

    Before being enlightened by this along with information gained from Server Sadiki & Walter Simberski of our Group and other engineers and physicists with whom I've spoken, I and most others were teaching that acceleration had to increase during the casting stroke for most efficient casts and best loops.  As you know, I even used the term, "accelerated acceleration" to make the point.  I was wrong.

    We also taught that acceleration should be greatest near the end of the stroke. Many, including me, had a sketchy understanding of the differences betwen, "speed", "velocity" and "acceleration" often mixing up these terms as we taught.

    As I understand it, new information includes the fact that an efficient cast with good loop control is best achieved with SMOOTH, CONSTANT ACCELERATION THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CASTING STROKE.

    This does not change the observation that rod tip speed increases near the conclusion of the stroke and is maximal betwen the stop (or max deceleration) of the hand/rod butt and the rod straight position (RSP) at which point the fly line can overtake the rod tip yielding loop formation.

    The acceleration of the rod tip during the rotational phase near the end of the stroke is responsible for the greatest tip travel during the stroke in a given period of time and so accounts for the increase in tip speed during that interval.

    Acceleration during this rotational phase can be considered as change in angular velocity of the rod despite the fact that the acceleration itself has been constant throughout the stroke including the preceeding translational phase.  Its measurement would be that of rate of change of angular velocity.

    One observation has been that the translational phase has as one major objective, the taking up of slack thus making the rotational phase more efficient.

    As Bruce Richards has analyzed these elements, he's found that the best loops for distance casting have been achieved with:

    1.) Smooth, constant acceleration through the entire stroke.

    2.) Longer translational phase to delay the rotational phase, thus placing rotation closer to the end of the stroke.

    From a practical teaching standpoint, he has found that the loops improve quickly when he has taught to delay the rotational phase.  Since learning that, I've found the same thing.

    All this, I feel, can dovetail very well with the simplistic concepts of, "start slow and end fast" and, "loading move followed by power snap", "Pop-stop", "speed-up-and-stop" which are easy for our students to understand.

    Bruce will probably write an article for the LOOP on this subject.  We'll also start to disseminate this information at our Continued Education Courses the first of which will be at the Marlboro Mass. Fly Show in January.

    Gordy