Walter & Group...................
Follow this string of messages:
My note to Bruce Richards :-
Gordy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bruce...
Thought I'd get your take on these comments. (I got a barrage of comments
on your thought of translation having as its major accomplishment the
taking up of slack! Kind of like poking your finger into a bee hive.)
Gordy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks Gordy, always fun to stir up the hornets! I've made a few comments
below.....
Bruce
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note
From Guy Manning re Troy Miller's messsage (which you have already seen). I've put Bruce Richards' comments each of which is preceeded by, ****** in red italics:-
Subject: RE: Value of Translation phase.
I agree with Troy but probably for different reasons.
This is an animation of Jay Clark tossing a shooting head in the 2006 ACA
National Tournament hosted by the Long Beach Casting Club this past August.
My definition for this discussion:
Translational phase = that forward motion of the cast applied through most
of the stroke prior to the application of rotation. (Translational movement
in a cast is accompanied by some rotation introduced by the shoulder and
elbow joints through much of the forward stroke. Bruce can confirm this if
needed.)
*****Translation can occur before, during or after rotation, but the part
of most interest to us is the before and during part. What joints are used
to make it happpen is irrelevant, that's casting style.
Rotation = that movement of the cast which is applied late in the stroke by
using the wrist. (Rotation is usually accompanied some translation
introduced by the body, shoulder and elbow joints, near the end of the
stroke.)
******When it's applied isn't relevant either, although good casters do
rotate late.
In the animation:
The green line represents a straight line scribed from where the forward
cast begins to where it ends at the commpletion of rotation. The
measurements were taken at the wrist joint. Each frame has a small red dot
at the place I feel is the wrist joint.
The magenta line perpendicular to the green represents that frame where the
rod is bent farthest into the butt. It also represents the point where
rotation is initially applied.
The last part of the animation replaces all of the red dots so you can see
the path the wrist has traveled during the entire stroke.
Rotation is indicated by an angle change between the wrist and the rod
butt
As you can see the rod is fully loaded by the time the rotation begins. So
the translational phase does a heck of a lot more than remove slack.
Rotation seems to be delaying RSP, but if you notice the rod is unloading
through the entire rotational phase.
******I cannot imagine how Guy would make this statement after watching the
clips. There is obviously very little rod bend prior to rotation. Rotation
starts early in both casts (earlier for Renee than Jay) because they are
extreme distance casts and the rod arc is very wide. Our arms are too short
to allow a long translation move before rotation with a wide rod arc. Of
course rotation delays RSP, it is rotation that causes the rod to bend and
rotation continuing after deceleration starts will further delay RSP. And
to say that the rod is unloading throught he entire rotational phase is
just not true, the rod is very obviously LOADING during more of rotation.
Guy has something odd stuck in his head and it is affecting what he
sees...... (Bruce)
If you want to see another one, here is Renee Gillibert casting:
Guy Manning
FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor
Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My comment: ....But I see SOME rod bend. As moderator, that brings me to feel that both Guy and Bruce are correct. To me it seem a matter of degree. Watch these video clips and come to your own conclusions as you access these web sites.
Gordy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
