Roll cast .... cont'd

This is a response to your request for methods of teaching basic roll casting to beginners and also distance roll casting to advanced students.

When dealing with true beginners, I steal a page from Joan Wulff, and teach the roll cast early. I demonstrate the cast first making sure everybody understands we do not want a huge convex path with the rod tip, but a relatively straight line path. If explained and demonstrated properly, it is usually not too difficult for beginners to perform with some degree of success and the initial success is always encouraging for the novice student. - With rank beginners, I have them do the uncomplicated vertical version of the roll, by having them lift the rod to form the D-Loop (which I stress must be behind the rod), then come to a stop to set the anchor (while explaining about surface tension and load). At this point, I instruct them to cant the rod away from the body and make a normal forward stroke with as sudden a stop as possible. I will on occasion, put my hand in front of the rod to stop it suddenly, just to stress the importance of the dead-stop to all who are watching. Another reason I teach the roll cast early is because it allows the student to deal with their own slack during the remainder of the lesson.

When teaching the distance roll to advanced students on the grass, I ask them to make as sharp a loop as is possible behind the rod, leaving only about a rod to a rod and a half length of line in front of them. I instruct them to keep the rod tip as far back and close to the ground as possible (explaining that this is an absolute necessity if windy). I also tell them to make sure they have some line ready to shoot and the line hand in the haul position. Next I tell them to make a normal forward stroke explaining the fact that the entire first part of the stroke is part of the rod loading process. When I explain the stroke I want to see, I use a phrase I picked up from our group (I do not know exactly who to credit), and that is "apply no power until after midnight". I find with most students this creates a visual and mental picture they readily grasp. I then tell them to make a smooth acceleration to a rapid rotation with a hard stop accompanied by a fast haul to match the power application. I stress the fact that the haul must be timed perfectly with the power application of the hand/wrist.

I get good results with the above.

I think in all fairness, I should mention that I read, re-read and read again everything Tom White has had to say to the group about roll casting over the last couple of years. Credit where credit is due.

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We can use the terms, "anchor" and "line stick" both to mean the friction of the line/leader/fly on the water in front of the caster.

Tom White's demonstrations of roll casting are world class. That's one of his specialties. A real treat to see him do that .

I agree with Joan Wulff's teaching of the roll cast right in the beginning to new casters. She does it for 3 reasons: 1.) It can be learned by most in minutes. 2.) It gives the trepid new caster a sense of immediate success. 3.) It isolates a rudimentary forward cast without the mental complexities of the student trying to handle both this and a back cast or false casting. I see additional value in having the new caster actually make a cast on the water which could very well catch a trout during the first few minutes of the class.

Some have criticized this approach. These instructors feel that the roll cast is a lot easier to teach AFTER the details of a good forward cast have been mastered. I see both approaches as making sense, especially as I look at Joan's teaching, not of an aereolized or distance roll cast, but a simple on-the-water-roll-cast which really does not require the full mastery of the forward stroke. Perfect for the rank beginner. She goes into teaching the, "in-the-air" roll cast with its refinements later, once the student has mastered a forward casting stroke and false casting.

I first learned of the principle of, "NO POWER 'TIL MIDNIGHT" from Chuck Easterling who used it to teach the avoidance of too much power too early in the forward roll cast stroke .... "midnight" referring to the position of the rod at 90 degrees to the target. (Perhaps Chuck will let us know if this was his brainchild.)

Emphasis on the, "set-up" is important. Not just the static back, "cast" but the basic position of the rod just prior to the forward stroke: tilted back (amount depending upon needed distance/stroke length)..... the line hanging down behind the caster, and the rod not perfectly in a vertical rod plane, but canted out in an off vertical plane at least to some degree.

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From Jim Valle: (My comments in his text in ITALICS.)

Gordy and Group,

For teaching the roll cast I have a few points that I have found helpful.

First, the most important thing we have to get past is the term “Roll” … very important to emphasize “This cast is simply a FORWARD CAST without a backcast!”

THIS IS A PRIME POINT !!

Second… “The key to making the roll cast is placing enough line behind you, the mass that will load the rod!” (get them to get the tip of the rod extended straight back as far as they can reach, “A Big D”

ANOTHER PRIME POINT.

ROD LOAD FOR ROLL CASTING WILL DIFFER DEPENDING UPON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. WHEN CASTING ON WATER, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF THAT LOAD COMES FROM THE SURFACE TENSION OF THE WATER ON THE FLY /LEADER/LINE IN FRONT OF THE CASTER.

AS YOU PLACE MORE AND MORE LINE BEHIND YOU FOR GREATER DISTANCE, PROGRESSIVELY MORE OF THE LOAD COMES FROM BEHIND. (THE INERTIA OF THE STATIC LINE BEHIND YOU).

WHEN CASTING ON GRASS FOR DISTANCE, THE WHOLE SECRET IS TO RELY MORE ON THAT LOAD FROM BEHIND. THAT IS WHY YOU NEED SO MUCH MORE LINE ON THE, "BACK CAST".

TRYING TO GET MORE LOAD FROM THE LINE, "STICK" IN FRONT OF YOU BY PLACING MORE OF THE LINE FARTHER IN FRONT QUICKLY REACHES THE POINT OF DIMINISHING RETURNS WHETHER YOU ARE CASTING ON WATER OR GRASS (OR A PARKING LOT, FOR THAT MATTER.)

I have also noticed that most casters come back in the vertical and therefore end up with a limited reach back and thus a very skinny “D” … simply not enough! So I get them to come back more horizontal but watch that the line is kept in tight, in line with what will be the forward stroke path of the rod tip. (this is what Tom White strives for a straight line pull) (Note the reach back often creates a problem the solution is in the check list below)

Third … STOP EVERYTHING … I use a checklist (Joan Wulff School)

Starting at the rod tip …tip is back and slightly out to the side (in line with the line)

Working our way down … 45 deg between the rod butt and the underside of the forearm. Hand is high, elbow raised

And The Most Important …THE ROD, HAND, PALM, FOREARM AND ELBOW …ARE ALL IN THE SAME PLANE!!! (NO TWISTS OR CONTORTIONS) …Smooth and Efficient Transfer of Energy!!

ONE COMMON FAULT WITH POOR CASTERS, IS TO HAVE THE LINE HANGING DOWN FROM THE ROD TIP CLOSE TO THE CASTER OR EVEN IN FRONT OF HIM/HER. A POOR ROLL CAST ALWAYS RESULTS.

Fourth… Stance, casting foot back

Rock back and make a Forward Cast.

Now one more key element …. What is missing? What is it that most of us as instructors fail to look for, especially on the dominant casting side? THE FORWARD STROKE!

If the hand does not move forward, as we all know, we are making a wrist or elbow convex path cast, the result is a large loop, not enough forward drive and we end up with the familiar pile!

This is a subtle fault because the hand usually does move forward to some extent, problem is it is slow, late and ineffective and probably too short. It is just not integrated into the casting motion. (More rotation than translation or rotation to a stop followed by translation, this translation is not part of the energy application it is after the fact or you could say the cast or stop)

That’s why the “Power Late” works, it requires the student to move something but not with power and thus forces a forward stroke into the cast.

AS JIM POINTS OUT,THIS ALSO GETS INTO OUR FORMER DISCUSSIONS ON TRANSLATION AND ROTATION. BEST RESULTS ARE ACHIEVED BY USING TRANSLATION TO DELAY ROTATION WHERE THE REAL POWER AND MAX TIP TRAVEL OCCUR.

CHECK OUT THE THREE PHOTOS ON P.60 OF ED JAWOROWSKI'S BOOK, "THE CAST". LOOK CLOSELY AT HIS WRIST AND HAND. IN THE FIRST 2 PICS, HE'S USING TRANSLATION. IN THE LAST ONE HE'S ACCELERATED WITH ROTATION.

GORDY

You may also notice the off shoulder rolls tend to be better, Why? … because it is more natural to move the hand forward first on the off shoulder side.

Hope this helps,

Jim V

From David Lambert:-

Gordy:

Here's a timing drill I use teaching the distance roll and other casts.

I have the student hold the tippet-end and sling the line backward as

though s/he were making a distance roll backcast. They can feel the rod

load and feel the distinct 'pull' of the line. Only then do they begin

the forward translational phase with a slightly rising trajectory.

Have the student face forward and place 35 feet of line in a wide loop

in front and to the casting-arm side. Rod tip low, in line with the

tip-leg. Have the student hold the tippet end in line-hand finger tips

(not a hook) and make a long, low-swept, Belgian-style oval cast,

aerializing and slinging the line with a quick half-bowl-shaped finish.

The student will feel a distinct rearward 'pull' from line mass and

momentum.

When student has 'gotten' the feel of the line pulling to the rear, have

the student follow the rod hand path with the tippet hand, so both line

and rod hands carve the same backward stroke, moving in unison. I

explain when they're comfortable feeling the line pull to the rear, make

a traditional long-loading forward cast culminating with a well

controlled, high forward stop. Timing can improve dramatically.

This is part of a drill to teach the rear-quick-release saltwater cast.

Add increased acceleration and trajectory to the rearward half'-bowl

stroke, line hand following the rod hand. Allow line to pull fly from

hand and extend back and straighten. Then come forward with a

conventional of side-armed cast.

Also:

On grass casting basic and distance roll, improved load is gained when

the caster 'steps' forward to begin the translation phase. Creates

additional anchor; eliminates slack. Note that this can be done to

different effects with either foot. I prefer the rod-side foot stepping

forward. You mileage may vary.

(Gordy: This description seems clear to me. If it isn't, and you

understand what I'm getting at and can improve it, feel free. DL)

David

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David...

To me it is very clear. Makes good sense. A step forward helps with ANY distance cast. Some competition distance casters actually make a jump forward. Either way, it increases tip travel to match the great amount of line carried.

Gordy