MCI questions/ FAST v. SOFT RODS / Style v. Substance

Walter & Group...

From Bill Toone (My comments in CAPS in his text):-

Gordy this is my first involvement with the “group” so forgive me for just blundering into it.  The following two questions came up recently at my Master’s Study Group and was suggested I post them for additional comment.

 

1. Throwing to a hypothetical distance of 75’ with equal length rods, one rod having a fast action and the other a slower action, what casting adjustment will be needed between the two rods?

 

• My answer was two fold.  First since it is a safe assumption that a double haul will be required to create enough loop speed for the distance required, the slower action rod will need to have an increase in the power of the haul to compensate for the typically reduced slower action’s loop speed.  Secondly the casting stroke will need to be lengthened.  This will need to be done for two reasons; with the increased power of the haul required to increase loop speed for the slower action rod, the stroke length will need to be increased to re-establish the straight line path of the rod tip so to prevent a tailing loop.  The casting stroke will also need to be increased because of the reduced effective rod length the slower action rod will have verses the faster action rod. 

      The faster action rod would have the reverse logic. 

  I AGREE WITH THE ABOVE.  WE CAN BE A BIT MORE SPECIFIC, HOWEVER.  THE CASTER WILL NEED INCREASED TIP TRAVEL AS A REQUIREMENT.  THIS IS THE RESULTANT OF TWO THINGS: 1. CASTING STROKE AND 2. CASTING ARC.  (TIP TRAVEL DEFINDED AS THE DISTANCE TRAVELED BY THE ROD TIP DURING THE CAST.)

NEW INFORMATION TELLS US THAT HE'LL LIKELY HAVE A MORE EFFICIENT NARROW LOOP THAN HE WOULD OTHERWISE WITH THE SLOWER ROD WITHOUT SUFFERING A TAIL IF HE DELAYS ROTATION UNTIL TAKING OUT WHATEVER BACK CAST SLACK MAY BE PRESENT AND STARTS TO OVERCOME THE INERTIA OF THE LINE WEIGHT BEHIND WITH A TRANSLATIONAL PHASE TO HIS HAND MOTION ie., "DRAGGING" OR "PULLING".

ALL THIS TAKES NO CONSIDERATION OF THE FACT THAT THE SLOWER ROD MAY ACTUALLY BE A MORE POWERFUL ROD THAN THE FASTER ACTION ROD ...... THOUGH THAT QUESTION WASN'T ASKED.  WE ARE LEFT MAKING THE ASSUMPTION THAT BOTH RODS HAVE THE SAME POWER, AND THAT BOTH HAVE THE SAME LINEAR DIMENTION (LENGTH) IN WHICH CASE THE STIFFER (FASTER) ROD WILL HAVE A GREATER EFFECTIVE ROD LENGTH AS DEFINED AS THE CHORD SUBTENDING THE ARC OF A FULLY BENT ROD.  ( 1.DON PHILLIPS, "THE TECHNOLOGY OF FLY RODS", P. 45) (2. VINCENT MARINARO, "IN THE RING OF THE RISE" PP. 52 - 53 ..)

 

2. Is the fly rod grip a substance item or a style item?

 

• My answer to this is different with the experience level of the student.  I felt at the beginning stages of learning to cast (true beginner to intermediate beginner) the grip was a substance item.  While the student would be exposed to other grips such as the finger on top and three point grips, the thumb on top grip would be the one the student would be instructed to use.  The thump on top grip being the more widely accepted and used grip.  My reasoning for this is with all a beginning student is exposed to; they need a definitive starting point grip wise so to better concentrate on establishing the five essentials.  With grips left as a style item at this early stage, the student might loose focus on establishing the proper mechanics and could keep changing his/her grip under the assumption it was the grip which was the issue and not proper casting mechanics. While it is certainly agreed that poor application of the grip could be an issue, this would be for the instructor to monitor at this stage of learning.  While I believe self actualization is important in learning, the fewer variables a student is faced with in the early stages the sooner he or she will establish the proper mechanics necessary to move to the next stage. As a student moves toward the advanced beginner stage then the grip would become a style issue.  With their better mechanics and understanding of the 5 essentials, experimenting with grips would not have the same adverse effect on learning since the student already has a good foundation of the proper mechanics.  It is a natural evolution of the learning process once the student moves beyond understanding the very basics.

     YOU BRING UP AN INTERESTING POINT, HERE. TO THE EXTENT THAT THE STUDENT HAS TO HAVE SOME GRIP IN ORDER TO HOLD THE ROD HANDLE, IT IS A MATTER OF SUBSTANCE.  AS SOON AS HE/SHE CHOOSES A PARTICULAR GRIP, IT BECOMES STYLE.  IN THE EVENT THAT THE INSTRUCTOR CHOOSES A GRIP FOR THE STUDENT, I FEEL THAT THE INSTRUCTOR HAS OPTED FOR A PARTICULAR STYLE FOR THE STUDENT.

     I SEE TWO WAYS OF TEACHING FLY CASTING.  ONE IS JOAN WULFF'S WAY IN WHICH SHE CHOOSES A PARTICULAR STYLE FOR THE NEW CASTER REALIZING THAT THAT STUDENT WILL LIKELY END UP SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE WITH A DIFFERENT STYLE ... ONE TAILORED TO HIS BODY HABITUS.   THE OTHER METHOD IS TO HAVE THE STUDENT DEVELOP A STYLE ON THE FIRST DAY OF INSTRUCTION. BILL GAMMEL DOES IT THAT WAY.  MOST INSTRUCTORS ARE SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

     MOST AGREE THAT IT ISN'T A GOOD IDEA TO CHANGE A STUDENT'S STYLE UNTIL AND UNLESS THERE IS A CASTING TASK WHICH THE STUDENT CAN'T DO WELL WITH THE CHOSEN STYLE.

     ALL ACCOMPLISHED CASTERS CHANGE STYLE TO SUIT THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND FISHING REQUIREMENTS OF THE MOMENT.  IN DOING THIS, THEY HAVE CHANGED THEIR DEFAULT STYLE TO ACCOMPLISH A PARTICULAR TASK.

    I LIKE AL KYTE'S WAY OF LOOKING AT STYLE AS, "SELF OPTIMIZATION".  ANOTHER WAY OF STATING IT IS THAT ANYTHING THE CASTER DOES TO MAINTAIN OR IMPROVE HIS/HER CASTING WITHOUT VIOLATING TO AN APPRECIABLE DEGREE ANY OF THE ESSENTIALS (SUBSTANCE) IS STYLE.

     A FEW DAYS AGO, DENNIS GRANT (CBOG) CHALLENGED US WITH A DISCUSSION OF SOME THINGS WHICH MAKES US DO SOME HEAD SCRATCHING OVER JUST WHAT IS PURELY SUBSTANCE AND WHAT IT PURE STYLE, WITH SOME GRAY AREAS WHICH I HAD NOT FORMERLY CONSIDERED.

     ONE CAVEAT:  MANY EFFECTIVE INSTRUCTORS START THEIR STUDENTS OFF WITH GRIPS OTHER THAN THE POPULAR, "THUMB-ON-TOP" ONE.

 

I might be totally off base on my answers to the two above questions.  I welcome your and the groups comments.  Thanks in advance.

YOU ARE NOT OFF BASE AT ALL WITH YOUR WAY OF THINKING, AS I LOOK AT IT.

LET'S HEAR FROM SOME OTHERS IN THE GROUP ON THESE QUESTIONS.

Gordy

 

Respectfully

Bill Toone