FW: Answers to casting questions

Gordy & Group,

Couple of comments on the whole exercise;

First of all Jim does a fine job. “It is a wise man who knows what he doesn’t know” so a little caution is advisable, however as a Master you must be able to do exactly what you have done and that is use your knowledge to arrive at a conclusion based on sound principles…and have the conviction to present it… Congratulations! (This is the “Understanding”, I continue to talk about, for those wondering about being ready to take the test the answer lies in your ability to respond to this type of scenario)

Secondly, don’t forget Masters are also responsible for teaching CI’s! The future of the Federation is in the quality of that instruction. I have to commend Gordy for his very brief answer but more importantly his right on insight. Gordy has a natural instinct for teaching and the more I work at it the more I develop this sense.

The fact here is that this prospective instructor needed to be guided in a very sensitive manner …that his rod was simply “NOT” going to work as a demo rod for his future students. His rod was a contradiction so stiff it couldn’t load for the prescribed line wt, his distance casts wouldn’t be pretty and could easily tail, all tip fought the roll casts and made them very difficult. Most importantly it would be impossible to match the normal student instruction (verbal & visual) to what the instructor is actually going to have to do with this rod to make the cast. Imagine the confusion for the students!

Although we can teach the corrections, there is no way any one of us is going to be able to make consistent and good quality demos for the variety of casts necessary in any lesson, with this equipment. If you want to be an instructor you must be prepared to instruct. You can not attempt to demo the cast 3 times, your students expect to see the right cast…right NOW! After all if you the instructor can’t do it easily how are they ever going to be able to get it right!

I would also note again that it is important to cast with your students gear. As an instructor all I saw was my student struggling to make the casts. Really helps to know what they are feeling. I also suggested he seek a solution to his equipment problem. It was my responsibility to him and his future students.

Jim V

From: Gordon Hill [mailto:masterstudy@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 8:26 AM
To: Jim Valle
Subject: Answers to casting questions

Jim Group.......

These answers from Jim Penrod (MCCI) are the best I've so far gotten:-

Let's see if some of the Group are brave enough to tackle these questions. Gordy

There is always one foolhardy person in the group. I'll take my shot and my lumps. If I have learned one thing from all this preparation it is that one learns better when he/she is willing to make mistakes. Well here goes......Jim Penrod

By the way you will come across this as instructors… It never ceases to amaze me…how many casters ( and not just new casters) don’t understand why their casts fall apart in mid air due to this exact situation which Gordy’s question addresses. It is important for your students to know and understand the head length of the line they are casting and the implications of that line on different casts!

Here’s a few things to think about: (assume the student is ready to learn in each situation)

a. New Casters line …short head… 30’ caster trying to throw a distance cast of 80’ by aerializing and false casting 50’ of line… cast falls apart …Why?Running line cannot carry enough energy down the line and loop opens or fails completely landing in a heap. The only time 50 feet of line might be considered would be on the final back cast and it had better be a really good one.

b. New Casters line … 30’ head … How would you teach a student to throw the entire 90’ line Keep in line at 30 feet with very good loops, increase speed and on final back cast shoot line until it is straight and horizontal and drift giving a longer forward stroke. Then a very abupt stop with a rapid haul with as long a delay in roatation as possible.

Distance line … 60’ head … How would you teach the student to throw the entire 100’ line Find out how much he/she can carry comfortably. Preferably 45-50 feet. Work on distance with one hand casts with no shooting and with shooting line with one hand. Maintain good loops. Add haul when satisfied with one handed casting. Shoot line on final back cast.

d. New Casters Line … 30’ head… How would you teach the student to make a 55’ distance roll cast Start with a short roll cast and ensure that the mechanics, form and timing are proper.Advance from there. Teach the student to lay as much line behind him as space allows with rod horizontal to the ground giving a long stroke. If he can handle some overhang, great, otherwise he will need to keep at least some of the rear taper at the tip of the rod. Again, no power until the midnight hour with a good haul and a very abrupt stop. Close to vertical with the rod seems to give better control.If there are no qualms teach him a switch cast.

e. Distance line … 60’ head… How would you teach the student to make a 55’ distance roll cast. The problem here is likely to be too much line out of the rod tip. Find the maximum amount of line that he can comfortably roll cast with the D loop beside him. He can ten add a few feet if he lays the line back with the rod horizontal. Follow as above.

f. Short head …. Hauls Short stroke and short hauls. Timing will be different than with long head and more line out of the rod tip. Less line will be carried so the pauses at the end of the forward and back casts will be shorter time wise. Haul distance should match the stroke distance

g. Long Head ….Hauls With long head, I am presuming the caster is going to carry more line. Thus there will be a longer pause at the end of the forward and back casts. Haul distance will be longer if it matches the stroke distance.

h. NOW>>> Student shows up with a WF 30’ head line (7wt) and a rod he built himself… Rod is extremely stiff !!! Fast tip recovery, and will not load beyond two feet below the tip with this line !… 8’0” Student is preparing to take the CI performance test very soon! How would you instruct this student to: (assume student can not afford new equipment of any kind and he intends to use this equipment as his demonstration equipment once he is certified)

a. Make a distance cast?Lots of practice watching both the forward and back cast so he can get muscle memory as to when the rod is loaded. I would have him do this both horizontally and upright (easier to see the loops horizontally and the feel of the load is the same).Begin with 30 feet of line out of the rod tip to give maximum load. Practice with only 20 feet of line out of the rod tip to refine his feel for rod loading maintaining good loops all the while. Can he handle some overhand and maintain good loops. If so determine how much and mark his line at that point with a tube knot. He is not to go beyond that point until the final backcast and shoot. Pointing may be helpful on the forward cast.

b. Make a short roll cast? Difficulty will be loading the rod and feeling the rod load.A burst of power and an abrupt stop will be necessry. Short roll cast is still going to take a shorter stroke than a long roll cast. Crouching may help to keep the caster from traveling too far with the rod tip.

c. Make a Long roll cast? Feeling the rod load will be a problem but it should load o'k with more line out of the tip. Ensure that the caster has enough line laid out behind him or a really good D loop. Stroke length can be increasd by laying the rod back. Application of power or burst of power should not occur before 12 o'clock. Add a haul as necessary.

d. Demonstrate Hauls? If this is for the CI he is supposed to have 40 feet of line and leader out of the rod tip. He might consider a longer leader than 7 and 1/2 feet. Work on casting with some overhang if he can do that. To begin do hauls while casting horizontally and in one direction only. The caster can pay attention to loop size, line speed, timing of his haul and stroke length better. When hauling is going well both ways combine for double hauling and come more vertical.He should continue to watch both forward and back casts to assure he is making good loops on the back cast and the loops are in parallel. (This is casting, not fishing).

e. Adjust his demonstration techniques for teaching … if any adjustments are necessary? To demonstrate hauls with this equipment do not put out more than 30 feet of line. Be sure to pantomine the technique with no rod. Have the class pantomine as well.

Think about these issues, at one point or another you will face these and other similar situations. Good for instructor preparation.

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Comment: Basically the thinking process behind these decisions should rest upon:

1.) Determination of how much line the caster can carry and still be able to make good loops.

2.) Evaluation of the amount of OVERHANG (The length of thin running line between the rod tip and the rear of the fly line head ) which the caster can handle for most of the casts.

3.) The amount of OVERHANG that remains for certain casts such as the roll cast.

( Frankly, on, "h.", I'd have that would be instructor go and invest in one of the very inexpensive fly rods available today for about $50.00 at places like Cabela's or Bass Pro shops )

Gordy

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