Walter...
For some reason, I didn't get your answers (?????)
GOOD POINT about the position of the hand. We'll share this.
I see you still have your good thinking cap on.
Gordy
From: WALTER/SUE SIMBIRSKI <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Long and short rods.
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:12:56 -0700
Hey Gordy - did you not get my answers to the long and short rod quiz? One
thing about this definition is that I think it should include the position
of the hand on the rod as one end of the arc. Lefty's trick of moving the
rod up to the stripping guide is basically shortening the effective rod
length. Also, distance casting rods have down locking reel seats so that
the caster can get his hand as close to the butt end of the rod as possible
and increase the effective length of the rod (not much of an increase but
in competition a few inches can make a world of difference.)
Thanks
Walter
>Walter...
>
>Thanks.
>
>The concept of, EFFECTIVE ROD LENGTH is an important one.
>
>Its definition as the LENGTH OF THE CHORD SUBTENDING THE ARC OF A FULLY BENT ROD has >real meaning to the fly caster.
>
>Put simply, it explains why a fast action 8' rod can handle the same wt. of line as a >10' soft action rod of the same designation.
>
> Gordy
From: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
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Subject: Re: Long and short rods.
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:29:19 -0500
Walter...
Thanks.
The concept of, EFFECTIVE ROD LENGTH is an important one.
Its definition as the LENGTH OF THE CHORD SUBTENDING THE ARC OF A FULLY BENT ROD has real meaning to the fly caster.
Put simply, it explains why a fast action 8' rod can handle the same wt. of line as a 10' soft action rod of the same designation.
Gordy
From: Walter Simbirski <simbirsw@xxxxxxx>
To: Gordon Hill <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Long and short rods.
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:51:31 -0700
Gordy - on the earliest reference for effective rod length Phillips (The Technology of Fly Rods page 45) says that he hadtwo references for the concept. The first was Marinaro in the Ring of the Rise. The second was J.C. Mottram's in FlyFishing, Some New Arts and Mysteries. Phillips didn't have a publication date for Mottram's book - the earliest Icould find was 1915. I don't have a copy of Mottram's book to confirm this.CheersWalter----- Original Message -----From: Gordon HillTo: caddis@xxxxxxx ; flysoup@xxxxxxxxxx ; sobbobfish@xxxxxxx ; rtab@xxxxxxx ; CAPTPERMIT@xxxxxxx ; creangler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dwright@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; daver@xxxxxxxxxx ; dennisg@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; captdoug@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; dsprague01@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ephemera@xxxxxxx ; brushycreekfc@xxxxxxxxx ; keysjake@xxxxxxx ; barefootj@xxxxxxx ; bradyir@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfishar@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ken.cole@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; captkirk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; glbaggett@xxxxxxxxx ; mkreider1@xxxxxxx ; martyt@xxxxxxxxxx ; niallogan@xxxxxxxxxx ; pminnick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; bigfly@xxxxxxxxx ; whorwood@xxxxxxxxx ; flycasts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; sheila@xxxxxxxxxx ; scjacobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; tharper@xxxxxxxxxxx ; tomwhite@xxxxxxxxxxxxCc: mildbill@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; Brydnlnims@xxxxxxxxxxx ; cezannealexander@xxxxxxxxxxx ; crazycharlie@xxxxxxx ; croberts@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; blacksalmon@xxxxxxxxxxx ; DermSox@xxxxxxx ; gladesflybum@xxxxxxxxx ; gavin@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillshead@xxxxxxx ; iverson@xxxxxxxxx ; jfs523@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jerry_puckett2001@xxxxxxxxx ; kathleen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; thedamselfly@xxxxxxxxxxx ; plami@xxxxxxxxxxx ; ray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; kerrrc@xxxxxxxxx ; simbirsw@xxxxxxx ; bobbeanblossomFFF@xxxxxxxxxxx ; hillcathy@xxxxxxx ; dnewpher@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; donjack@xxxxxxxxxxx ; douglas.swift@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; erniemaynard@xxxxxxxxxxx ; flyfsfrank@xxxxxxx ; hlpc@xxxxxxx ; jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; harveyjl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx ; skifishvail@xxxxxxxx ; jfv@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; trallag@xxxxxxx ; captflyrod@xxxxxxx ; mollysemenik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; fraudflies@xxxxxxx ; shane@xxxxxxxxx ; snowmonkey29@xxxxxxxSent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:29 PMSubject: Re: Long and short rods.Bob....
WELL DONE!
A couple of comments.
1.) Not everyone agrees that a fly rod is a flexible 3rd class lever. I do, but that's still open to discussion.
2.) As far as I could find, Vince Marinaro WAS the first to describe the effective rod length. Another writing in which this is discussed in some detail is, THE TECHNOLOGY OF FLY RODS by Don Phillips. (p.45.).
Gordy
From: "Bob Rumpf - The Flye & The Pen" <caddis@xxxxxxx>
To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Long and short rods.
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 17:25:28 -0500
Hi Gordy,Here are my answers to the new quiz. My answers follow the questions and are in maroon for easy reading.Thank for the quiz,Bob RumpfHi, Group....
A mini-quiz:
1.) List as many advantages and disadvantages of long vs. short fly rods.
A.) Longer 3rd class lever
B.) Much better line control for mending after the cast.
C.) Longer drift achieved with reach cast due to longer rod length (follow the line with the rod and take advantage of the extra length on the other end of the drift also)
D.) Much easier to make distance casts, due to superior lever.
E.) Roll casting is easier.
F.) Pickups are easier.
G.) The longer rod length helps keep the line on your back cast above the brush on the river/lake bank/shore.
2.) Lefty once wrote, " The longer the fly rod, the more it helps you make the cast."
a.) List any thoughts you may have in support of that statement.
Ans.) Longer lever for one.
b..) What, if any, are the limitations of that statement.?
Ans.) When rod reaches a length that becomes difficult to handle, then obviously nothing is gained.
c.) Give a fishing circumstance where a 10' single handed fly rod might be preferable to an 8 1/2' rod.
Ans.) "Stick-fishing" pocket water (behind boulders) such as upper Madison, similiar to dapping.
Ans.) Achieving long natural drifts while big water nymphing (or fishing dries for that matter) using reach cast in combination with repeated flip mends.
Ans.) If you enjoy, or want to learn single hand, Spey casting, a longer rod, though not absolutely necessary, is helpful.
d.) Can you think of a fishing circumstance where a 5' long fly rod might be best ?
Ans.) Fishing small mountain streams with tree lined banks and a canopy.
e.) Lefty taught us a trick to solve the problem of the angler out on the stream in just such a, "short rod circumstance" as in, d.) who finds himself with only a 9' rod at his disposal. (His short rod is 2 miles back at the car !)
What is Lefty's trick ?
Ans.) Slide your rod hand up onto the butt section of the rod close to the butt guide, you can make the effective casting length of your rod up to 18" shorter.
3.) Can you come up with an accepted definition of, EFFECTIVE ROD LENGTH ?
Ans.) The measured cord that subtends the arc of the fully bent rod.
4.) Who first described this ?
Ans.) I know Vince Marinaro described this, but was he actually the first, who knows?
5.) Name two books in which this is described.
Ans.) "Modern Dry-Fly Code" & "In The Ring of the Rise"
Gordy