Paul.....
As I look at it, leading with the elbow can yield an advantage.....and when you do that you are "pulling". It seems to me that once you start to extend the elbow, you begin the "push" phase. Just when that occurs, I look at as a matter of style. Some find it very effective to pull as long as possible....and reserve the "push" for the very last...often combined with a definite wrist snap.
Gordy
From: "Paul Arden" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: "Paul Arden" <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: pulling/pushing
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:00:37 +0100
Hi Gordy, (just catching up with my emails!)
It was Mel who first introduced me to "pulling" and it was Carlos who came up with the softball
approach: http://www.sexyloops.com/carlos/pushandpull.shtml
But I don't see it like that any more. I love the ease of tracking and the crisp top-pointed loops
that pulling gives but if you need distance for competition, or if you simply need to open your
stroke then you have to extend from the elbow. In fact pushing/pulling has created an
enormous amount of confusion and much of that is my fault. But I still blame Mel and Carlos!
Something I do like which has it's roots in this pulling concept is to lead
with the elbow. A good cast should start at the feet and work up through the body with the
final movement coming from the hand/wrist.
Cheers,
Paul
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Hill" <hillshead@xxxxxxx>
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Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: pulling/pushing
>Jim....
>
>I'll answer this one first as I'm waiting for a few more answers to
>the list of questions to come in.
>
>Pulling is a LOT more effective than "pushing". Paul is absolutely
>correct about that.
>
>One of the reasons, is that it's a great deal easier to control the
>straight line path of the rod tip through that portion of the stroke
>when you are pulling. Another reason, is that for most casters, the
>effort of pulling is smoother that that of pushing. It's not that
>one can apply more power with the pull.
>Some casters have a tendency to, "elbow cast" rather than using an
>effective compound motion of all of the joints of the upper
>extremity. (Joan Wulff make a good point of teaching to avoid this
>as she has the caster go through the motions with a mirror to the
>side.) This tends to yield a convex rod tip path. When Paul has
>the caster use a fluff ball in the crotch of the elbow, the idea is
>to have him not release it until late in the stroke. This has the
>effect of, "leading with the elbow" which favors a pulling move
>while loading. It's particularly effective when a vertical / elbow
>forward style is used.
>
>Also, I find that (for me, at least) that the transition from the
>pulling mode done mostly during the loading phase to the rapid
>acceleration to a stop, (the so-called, "power snap") is better
>controled and smoother.
>
>Lastly, for those with powerful wrists (like Tom White) this
>transition point allows an effective, almost explosive wrist
>turnover to the adducted wrist position at the final stop. This, in
>turn, helps to yield as true a STOP as possible for these casters.
>
>
> Gordy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: t.maltese@xxxxxxxxx
> To: hillshead@xxxxxxx
> Subject: pulling/pushing
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:17:20 +0000
> Good morning, Gordy,
> I have now caught up on my e-mail. I really wish that I could have
>made
> Livingstone. It sounds as though your hand has made a good
>recovery. I caught
> you note about your fishing day when you broke your hand. What a
>bad end to
> such a good day!
> I ran across something in Paul Arden's games (now I can't find it
>at the
> moment) but he had two exercises that involved pulling the rod.
>One was with
> a soft ball (sponge like) tucked in at the bent elbow while doing
>the casting
> stroke and the other was with weights dangling. Both were designed
>to
> help "pull" the rod through the casting stroke. He commented that
>it gave a
> more arrow like shape to the loop and had pictures of a loop from
>a "puller"
> and a "pusher". You have commented that an arrow point loop can be
>made
> otherwise. Are there real advantages to being a puller versus a
>pusher? It
> seems that this is really a style as one has to have some push at
>the end of
> the stroke. However, I remember Mel giving a dmeonstration of
>pulling and
> George Roberts emphasizes pulling through the stroke also. Kirk
>Eberhard
> tells me that he is a "pusher". Your experience and comments would
>be
> appreciated. (I watch George Roberts so effortlessly throw 70 and
>80 feet of
> line with no haul and such beautiful loops. His stops in real time
>are almost
> imperceptible but must be extremely sharp).
> Jim
>