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Walter & Group...
From Peter Morse:
I agree entirely with John's summation of Al Kyte's book. I think its one of the most important in an instructors library.
Another point about practice.
Use different rods with different lines - as an instructor you are going to encounter all sorts of set-ups brought along by your students, the good the bad and the ugly and you will need to throw near perfect loops with them straight away. Its good to be very familiar with your test rod but that's a one dimensional approach.
If you don't have access to a wide variety of rods change fly lines on the rods you do have, if its a 5 or a 6 string a 2 weight line through it and string a 10 weight line through it, learn to cope with and understand the changes that will be necessary in your stroke as per the 5 essentials to avoid throwing rubbish casts.
Peter
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[GH] Peter,
As you know, my opinion is that Al Kyte's book is MUST reading by MCI candidates. Let me take it a step further and say that I strongly recommend that each candidate have a copy for regular reference. *
* Orvis Guide To Better Fly Casting, A Problem Solving Approach, by Al Kyte, 2008, ISBN 978-1-59228-870-0
Gordy
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From David Lambert:
Gordy - Re: Your comment to Dave Barron about simple voice recorders for testing purposes:
Most cell phones have voice recorders these days. All iPhones have them, all Android smart phones have them, and many of the older phones had some recording device built in.
David
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[GH] Good call. I should have thought of that! Thanks.
Voice recorders can be used during casting practice as well as during testing. When practicing tasks which have multiple casts such as wind casts and change of direction casts, one can come up with simple algorithms which, once practice and learned, can lead to smooth presentation.
One example: When explaining and demonstrating the many different casts which can be used with wind blowing onto the casting arm side, I like to start with very mild wind and then progress to techniques to handle ever increasing wind velocity. That gives me an organized thought pattern for those demonstrations.
Gordy
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A few answers chosen from Ivan Streif's list. My comments in red :
Good morning Gordy,
Excellent new topic! Here are a few thoughts...
Ivan Streif
In a message dated 1/21/2013 9:04:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, hillshead305@xxxxxxxxx writes:
Ivan & Group...
For Master candidates to get to a level of casting which will make it likely that they will pass the performance part of the MCI test, there is nothing which will take the place of PRACTICE.
Here are a few questions to start the ball rolling for our discussion on this topic :-
1. What (if anything) do YOU do to be ready to practice when the opportunity to do so arises?
Make a list of tasks I want to practice and the goals I want to achieve. I also make a list of problems I encountered on previous practice sections and work to eliminate them.
[GH] Some use notes of that kind on 3x5 cards to be used during practice. I did that.
2. Many books have been written about learning fly casting. Precious few of them include details on effective ways of PRACTICE. One book, published in the U.S.A. in 2009, has 241 pages, 105 of them devoted to practice.
Can you tell us its name and author?
I’m not sure what book you are referring to but I have found Al Kyte’s The Orvis Guide to Better Fly Casting: A Problem-Solving Approach to be very helpful. It has lots of practice exercises.
[GH] Yes, indeed. An excellent work. In my opinion, MUST reading for MCI candidates! *
3. Do you think there are some folks to whom fly casting comes so easily and "naturally" that they can be considered "born casters" who need little practice to become experts?
I have met some people who felt they were “natural born casters” but I think what they really had was a lack of understanding of what a good cast is. Obviously some people have superior athleticism, timing and learning ability than others, but EVERYBODY needs to practice.
7. In general, which of the tasks listed on the Master Performance test would you recommend spending the most time practicing ?
I would say that depends on where a candidate’s individual weakness lays. That could be any of the tasks. Personally I always start a practice session with the basic overhead cast with emphasis on timing and loop control, because that is the foundation of every other cast.
[GH] I "warm up" with basic loop formation exercises. Practicing the casts which are most problematic more often than the ones accomplished easily is, I think, a good idea for those preparing for their exams.
I've been asked which casts to practice almost right up to test time. I think I'd choose the accuracy tasks.
8. Why?
[GH] For me, I found that the accuracy tasks were the most difficult to maintain at peak level without frequent practice ... including doing it as a last effort before competition or testing.
9. "There is practice which yields lasting results slowly if ever, and practice which is highly and more rapidly productive."
" HOW you practice is more important than how often or how long you practice"
What is meant by those statements ?
Learning and refining your skills is dependent on properly executing casts and not reinforcing bad habits. The emotional state under which you practice can also have an effect on how you learn. I would recommend reviewing the two excellent articles by Dayle Mazzerella, Brain Research and Casting Instruction in the Winter and Spring 2012 editions of the Loop.
[GH] A good addition! Here it is - http://www.fedflyfishers.org/Portals/0/Documents/Casting/The Loop/TheLoopWinter2012.pdf
Lots more to follow on this sub topic in future messages.
10. When practicing distance casting, do you actually measure your achieved distances ?
Yes
13. Some candidates go out and practice in the rain or when it is snowing. Is this foolishness?
If that is the only time you have to practice then go ahead, but I generally don’t.
[GH] Candidate's who never practice casting in the rain may be in for a rude awakening if they find them taking their tests in a constant drizzle. Fly lines behave a bit differently in the rain.
19. Do you know any practice tricks to help you learn to make small loops when roll casting?
I like to pick a target about eye level for my forward casting stroke rather than casting at the water. Also stop the rod “before midnight” on the forward stroke.
25. When, if ever, would you "go back to basics" during your practice sessions?
At the beginning of every practice session and any time my casts are deteriorating.
Ivan
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A few chosen answers from Lyth Hartz:
3. Do you think there are some folks to whom fly casting comes so easily and "naturally" that they can be considered "born casters" who need little practice to become experts?
There are some very naturally gifted people who cast fly rods and they seem to get it immediately. However, I also think that they can benefit from good practice. 4. What do some fly casting instructors do to be as effective as possible in getting their students to actually go out and practice after teaching sessions?
I ask my students to practice. I tell them that in my opinion, the cast is to fly fishing as the swing is to golf. It is the “athletic” part of our sport and benefits from practice. I also tell my students that most golfers will also spend time at the driving range to improve their swing. Fly fishers can benefit from practice time at a local park to improve their casts. The other thing I do is allow them time to practice during our teaching sessions. I think they benefit from time to do casting without my being directly present. (Practice practicing)
7. In general, which of the tasks listed on the Master Performance test would you recommend spending the most time practicing ?
I like to stress the practice of fundamentals in almost all sessions. The first couple of tasks are about good loop control and I think those fundamentals need to be practices regularly. The tasks that a candidate finds more difficult will also need to be practiced more often. For me that is the aerial mends at different distances that require my practice attention. Having said this, I also think that all of the tasks require practice.
8. Why?
Practicing fundamentals helps the caster make more difficult casts which all require a mastery of the fundamentals. Difficult tasks for a caster will just need more time and attention so increased practice time will help accomplish that. Another set of trained eyes on the practice sessions will also help greatly.
25. When, if ever, would you "go back to basics" during your practice sessions?
Almost every session that I practice has some “back to basics” included. I use them to hopefully stay out of trouble and also when I get into trouble, I retreat to the basics to “regain my footing” so to speak. I advise my students that if they begin to have difficulty, to shorten their line and to go back to the basics to get the feel of a good cast again.
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Chosen From Bruce Barker's list:
7. In general, which of the tasks listed on the Master Performance test would you recommend spending the most time practicing ?
Given you are happy with your level of casting for the tasks requiring demonstration only, I would recommend spending most time on tasks requiring “explain and demonstrate” and especially the one where you are required to teach as well.
[GH] Don't forget... On the exam, the Master Candidate may be asked to teach ANY of the tasks.
25. When, if ever, would you "go back to basics" during your practice sessions?
If I found that as aspect of my casting wasn’t right I might go back to basics to remind myself of the feeling and technique of achieving as task. Of course one will need to go back to basics in the teaching situation as well.
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From Piotr Talma:
Q 3 From my practice I known that people who show natural skills at sport, dancing and music can learn fly casting far more easily.
I think that the sense of balance, rhythm, coordination as well as the sense of space predispose them to becoming experts in a relatively shorter time. I also known some people who are so awkward at physical movement (motoricity) that they will never be able (in my opinion) to master fly casting as real experts. However, they can learn to cast on a basic level and fish effectively and enjoyably. There was an experiment on a group of people who couldn’t swim. For some time they watched videos and participated in lectures on swimming. After that they were put into the water and they were able to swim, some of them even very well. It shows us that sometimes practice is unnecessary. But I have never tried this approach with my students ;-) [GH] Hard to imagine learning to swim that way !!! I do know two people who claimed to be "self taught" fly casters. Both could do it, but not very well.
Q4 I always encourage my students to practice on their own by telling them it is the only way to become good casters and more effective fishermen.
When they go out fishing I advise them to get some practice before they start fishing for the minimum of 15 mins. Besides, I tell them to exercise even more when the fish stop feeding. [GH] When flats fly fishing in the salt, I have more long waits for fish to show than I care to admit. I DO practice various casts during those periods.
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Chosen from David Lambert's answer list:
1. What (if anything) do YOU do to be ready to practice when the opportunity to do so arises?
-- Keep a couple of rods ready to cast. And keep your body in casting shape. Exercise? Mental imaging? Pantomime? [GH] You are the first to mention staying in shape with exercise. Back in 1959, Charles Ritz described his exercise program in Europe ... using a Hock wine bottle. *
Joan Wulff also added a section on exercise beneficial to fly casters. ** ***
* A Fly Fisher's Life, by Charles Ritz, English Translation, Reprinted, 1996, ISBN 1-56731-264-0, p.35.
** Joan Wulff's NEW FLY-CASTING TECHNIQUES, by Joan Wulff, 2012, ISBN 978-0-7627-7834-8, p.42.
*** Joan Wulff's FLY-CASTING ACCURACY, by Joan Wulff, 1997, ISBN 1-55821-484-4, Chapter 12, "Strengthening your muscles, pp. 89-93.
5. Your intermediate student asks you how long her practice sessions should be after after she returns home following your class. What do you tell her?
--It would depend on the physicality of student. 30 - 45 minutes maybe. Practice is repetitive to create muscle memory. Don't want a student practicing to the point where he/she is practicing 'imperfectly,' thus creating inefficient muscle memory. I do tell intermediates that if they begin to fall apart, switch to casting with their non-dom hand. You can learn much from telling yourself the 'right' way to cast with your other hand. And it gives the dominant hand a break. 6. Would you recommend the same periods of time for practice for a Master candidate to prepare for his/her exam?
-- Depends, possibly. But a master should have the physical skills and muscle memory to practice efficiently for an hour, maybe more. And daily or more, if time would allow. 9. "There is practice which yields lasting results slowly if ever, and practice which is highly and more rapidly productive. HOW you practice is more important than how often or how long you practice." What is meant by those statements ?
-- Efficient practice yields efficient casting. It's muscle memory; your muscles can just as easily remember poor casting motion as good casting. Positive practice yields positive results. Inefficient practice yields negative results. 10. When practicing distance casting, do you actually measure your achieved distances?
--Yes, of some sort, especially if I'm trying to reach a mark I know I'm having trouble with. IF I had trouble with 85 feet I'd damn sure give myself a mark to shoot for. 11. If you answered, YES to 10., tell us how you do that.
-- I use a 100' builder's vinyl tape (roll-up) and about 6 inches of electrical tape to indicate increments. Hoops or anything lying flat are good. I use the small, flat orange soccer cones as an examiner, to test with. 23. Do you practice using different casting styles?
-- Yes, every time I practice. 24. Why?
--In real-world teaching you will want to teach to the student's style, not your own. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[GH] More comments and answers with our next message.
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