Casting practice 10

Walter & Group...

>From John Johnson:

Hi Gordy,

I appreciate John Van Dalen's comments on roll casting. I have been working with him for many years and I can say that his approach works well.

The problem that I have is that to make a 50 ft roll cast that is required for the Masters requires a slightly different approach. Making a 30 ft roll cast is easy and most anyone can pick it up in a few minutes. I have been working on the long roll casts for several years and I still do not find it easy to make the 50 ft distance. I have discovered that the basic principals apply. To make the long cast we need to increase the line velocity and still maintain small efficient loops. To do this we must use a larger arc. If larger arc is not used we get the typical tailing loop. If we allow the rod to extend horizontally back to the maximum extension and then start the stroke (start accelerating the rod) at 2:00 rather than the 12:00 we can usually make the 50 ft distance( Bruce Richards idea). The rod must be moving forward(it cannot be stopped) at the 2:00 position to allow for maximum rod loading. On the water it is critical that the line stop for only a very brief split second or the line will be caught by the surface tension and will not allow the long cast to be made (Lefty Kreh’s idea I think). Of course we extend this in spey casts to allow for the loop to thrown back and allow for even more efficient rod loading.

Do you have any other thoughts on the long distance roll cast?

Thanks for the help.

John Johnson

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[GH] John,

Fits our topic.

Sounds to me as though you have given this a lot of concentrated thought and have practiced this cast to the point that you have almost solved your own problem. You can do it. Now you want to improve.

YOUR PRACTICE IS FOCUSED !

Now you are trying to explain how you did it and are doing very well with your personal "debriefing" !

Some information which may help you do even better .... and, perhaps, teach us all a few things:

I think Lefty Kreh may have been among the first, if not the first, to recommend, for more efficient and distance roll casting :- "To make the most efficient roll cast, bring the rod and rod hand back as far as you possibly can for the existing fishing conditions so you can use the rod to help you make the cast." *

When you do that, you end up with a wide casting arc which then must be matched with controlled application of force sufficient to cause enough rod bend for an almost straight line rod tip path and a tight loop.

By bringing your hand and rod tip way back, your D-loop is larger and farther back and helps load the rod better in addition to whatever load you may gain from the "line stick" in front of you. This makes a BIG difference since it is this plus the controlled force you exert in achieving that necessary rod load and bend. It is a major factor in determining your maximum achievable distance.

This is one place (bringing the rod hand and tip back farther) where Lefty and Bruce Richards have agreed .... as you noted..... despite the fact that their default styles are very different.

The position of the "line stick" is also important as well as its duration on the water in front. Best to have the end of the line no farther in front of you than necessary. (You need enough line out front to make the 50' mark ... unless you have line coiled to shoot). If you hesitate too long, the leader and fly will sink enough to increase the difficulty of getting it airborne.

Tom white agreed with Lefty .... and then took it a step further as he used to easily make 100' plus roll casts by flipping a narrow D-loop way behind him exactly in line with the target in front. Using that technique, he could take his time and not have to hurry the forward cast. The rod load from that long static loop behind would even overcome what would otherwise have been, "too much line stick".

John Van Dalen added the concept of "No power before midnight" which really translates into Lefty's language as he states that to make a tight loop you must have a "short speed-up-and-stop" - "Do not make the short speed up and stop until your hand is in front of your body".* Different words ... same thing.

When teaching Tom's technique, I used to demonstrate it by flipping my long narrow D-loop on the ground, have my rod tip and hand way behind me with the rod tip aimed back at the apex of that narrow static loop and say, "Now I'll take my time and have a cigar". After waiting as long as I cared to, I'd make a long distance roll cast with ease.

***Because this is not the way most roll casts can be made due to restrictions behind the angler or when water is behind, the MCI Testing Committee will not allow this method to be used on the exam ! ***

We can, however, comply with the wording on the exam by slowly dragging the line behind with the line no farther behind than the rod tip... and still have it far enough back there to easily make that distance roll cast, because your arm and rod tip will be far enough behind you. A hundred feet plus ? No. Fifty feet? Yes!

(See Task 6 - attached.)

Lots more details are needed to refine these techniques, My personal recommendation is to read and study Lefty's writing and clear photos of his roll casts. *

Caveat: Lefty's casts are described and depicted using his well known, "low elbow, on the shelf, off vertical" style. In my opinion, that doesn't change the principles involved. For me, his style makes it easier.

PRACTICE HINTS:

Hint 1: Practice with different lengths of line/leader on the water in front of you being conscious of what lengths with different leader assemblies give you best results.

Hint 2: Helps me to crouch when I make the distance roll cast. Also helps keep the loop lower. Try it.

Hint 3: A well timed single haul will help increase line speed.

Hint 4: Try canting the rod (off vertical rod plane) to different degrees off vertical and observe the results. Pick the angle which works best for you.

Hint 5: Try making a crisp stop with the rod tip ever closer to the oncoming line and observe what this does to your loop. (I think you have already done that.)

* CASTING with LEFTY KREH, by Lefty Kreh, 2008, ISBN 13: 978-0-8117-0369-7, pp. 153-156.

Gordy

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[GH] An engineer comments. This from Bill Kiester:

Gordy,

Loops are a funny things. Lefty's comment about energy provided by the caster is really to the point.

As the tip of the fly rod accelerates along the straight line path more and more kinetic energy is being stored in the fly line. As it comes time to make the loop the tip starts to move below (inside) the straight line path. But to form the loop it must still be applying forces to the fly line. Which it does as is demonstrated by the fact the the fly rod is still bent until is straightens. Even counter flex is applying a little forces to the fly line by using up the kinetic engery in the fly rod. The size of the loop is determined by where, in relation to the oncoming fly line, the fly rod tip stops applying power. So power during loop formation is a necessity.

But here is the interesting thing to me. Once that loop is formed it remembers how big it is. This is graphically demonstrated by Lefty during shows when he send out a loop touches the rod tip to the ground and raises it back up to the initial loop formation point. The integrity of the loop is maintained. Lefty only fiddles with the 'rod leg'. This integrity of the loop is why a reach and other Arial mends work.

One caveat. This property only holds when the rod tip increases the distance from the path of the fly leg. And, returns no closer to the fly leg than the diameter of the loop as originally formed.

Bill Keister

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