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Walter & Group...
>From Phil Gay,
Gordy,
Bruce's comments mirror what I have always said and taught about the haul. I have always been adamant that the primary purpose of the haul was to increase line speed versus adding rod loading.
Of course as Bruce correctly pointed out increasing the speed of the line in effect makes it heavier from a physics standpoint so it will add some additional loading but that is not the purpose. Hauling reduces the need for as much power from the rod hand. Less power equates to less bend which results in tighter loops.
Perhaps Walter Simbirski can comment on the physics in my thinking as well as Bruce's.
Phil
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[GH] Walter Simbirski answers:
Hi Gordy,
Got your message and will provide a more complete answer later today but for a quick experiment try the following:
- Try loading a rod without line. How deeply can you load it?
- Now string up the rod lay out a bunch of line on the ground and try loading the rod with hauling only (no use of the rod hand except to hold the rod stationary). How deeply can you load the rod through hauling only?
Cheers!
Walter
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>From Sam Doyle:
Hi Bruce
One of the responses to Gordy's on when to haul was confusing. The answer was that he hauled when he was drifting back after the stop. What benefit would he get from hauling after the stop? Hope all is well in Bozeman, are getting much snow.
Regards Sam
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[GH] Here is the question and answer from our message entitled: Hauls 3 :-
9. You are making a forward false cast while carrying more than 55 feet of line out of your rod tip, when do you stop your haul ?
Bob's answer: On a single haul, at the end of the power snap. On a double haul, after drift when the line has completely unfurled.
Bruce:
My answer would be that there is no benefit to continuing the haul while drifting back and that it would actually negate some of the effect of the drift by acting like a check haul in forcing the back cast loop to unroll more quickly.
Your thoughts?
Gordy
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>From Bruce Richards:
Hi Gordy,
You're right, hauling after loop formation, during drift, would act to force the loop to turn over more quickly. The only possible benefit to that would be if the loop didn't have enough energy to fully turnover on it's own. In that case, hauling after loop formation, will force loop turnover, but at a shorter distance.
Assuming the goal of hauling is to increase line speed, hauls must stop accelerating the line at the same time the rod does, and that is right at RSP. Single, double, front or back, all the same..
Bruce
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[GH] Message string, above, followed by:
Bruce,
To question 10., he added :
10. When making a back cast prior to your delivery forward cast when distance casting, at what point do you stop your haul ?
Ans. On a double haul, at the end of drift.
So ... doesn't seem like a typo.
Gordy
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>From Bruce:
Interesting, makes me wonder what he thinks drift is, when it happens. Hard to envision anyone thinking hauling once the loop has nearly straightened would be the right thing to do.. Barring some odd scenario, the right time to stop ANY haul is at RSP, all other details of the cast don't change that... the details of "back cast prior to.... " and "when distance" casting are just distractions that any good student of fly casting should know to ignore...
Gordy, it would be interesting to ask him why he thinks what he does. Sometimes people simply recite what they've been told. Talking through the reasoning can be very enlightening. I'm sure you're like me, having learned more about casting from having to explain it to others than about any other method! Having to explain things clearly is real hard without deep understanding. That is actually where my relationship with Frank started, many years ago. He asked some unique questions about casting and wouldn't accept any answer he didn't fully understand. A great challenge for me..
Bruce
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[GH] Bruce ...
Sure. I have learned a lot by critiquing, then disagreeing with answers only to find out I was wrong!!
Gordy
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