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Walter & Group...
[GH] I hesitate to get too deeply into the generation of flycasting definitions...discussion can go on ad infinitum.
We've learned that it is extremely difficult if not impossible to gain a full consensus on the wording of fly casting definitions when we have more than a few people discussing them.
While it is not the task of our Study Group to come up with our own list of definitions, having a look at the problem may help us more fully understand fly casting mechanics.
Gordy
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From Dayle Mazzarella:
Gordy,
I finally got around to reading your conclusions regarding these answers. I noticed your concern regarding the answers to defining casting stroke.
I guess I see considerably more in common with most of them. Almost all of them included a reference to a beginning and an end, not withstanding the fact that such a reference was not always specifically articulated. To me, the MEANING of most were fairly similar. I believe we can come up with a definition that most could live with. I think too many of us are getting hung up on our preferences as to SPECIFIC wording and largely ignoring the bigger picture which in my view is considerably more important than my personal preference.
I see the bigger picture as the need to service our students and potential CCI's with a WORKABLE definition, that while not PERFECT in some people's view, serves the purposes of 1) creating considerably more uniformity than is currently the case, and 2) allows us to move forward.
After attending the Fair in Spokane it became clear to me that we need to get something DONE in a timely fashion and reduce the bickering about little details that , in the field, get lost in translation anyway. When there are relatively minor differences of opinions between numerous really good castors and teachers it is apparent to me that there isn't a right or wrong answer.
The lack of a uniform glossary is much more harmful to our mission than one which not all agree with completely , but which we can all live with.
I believe teamwork is considerably more important than personal hubris. There is no "I" in team. I for one will be glad to sign off on any reasonable set of definitions that we can use to effectively move forward.
Dayle
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[GH] Dayle,
Yes. Things crash when we start nit-picking over the specific words.
Unfortunately, some find proffered definitions totally unacceptable if their ideas of specific wording doesn't prevail.
As a glossary is crafted, each definition must make sense in the light of each and all of the others. THAT can provide a stumbling block.
This is why I came up with what I called my "Working definitions". They are not perfect, and I'll be happy to change them when better ones make sense to me.
We've seen proposed definitions of a Casting Stroke which start the stroke with the first movement in the direction of the cast all the way to a start with the beginning of significant acceleration. We've seen some which end the stroke at RSP 1, others which end it at line launch Still others which end it at the start of loop formation. (All within a fraction of a second of one another). One definition which was considered included only elements which alone were sufficient to cause loop formation (which left Drag and Creep out of the stroke)....... on and on.....
One set of useable definitions comes from the SexyLoops Board and includes this:
Gordy
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>From Jean-Francois Lavallee:
Hello Gordy,
Interesting readings...
It seems to me from my naive point of view that we should be talking about three definitions.
At the moment by my understanding, we have the casting arc/angle and the casting stroke.
The casting stroke seems to incorporate the entire cast in its definition.
But shouldn't it describe the stroke only?
Then we could have a definition for the casting arc/angle, one for the casting stoke and one for the cast.
I'll let you guys argue about the right definition for each :-) but here is an example for discussion purposes
Casting arc/angle : The angular change of the rod butt during the cast
Casting stroke : Distance traveled by the rod butt during the cast
Cast : Tb determined.
My first try.... The action of propulsing(1) a line in a desired direction, through the proper movement and application of power on the butt of a rod, in order to create a straight line path of the tip during its smooth acceleration to its sudden stop.
(1) propulsing, shooting, throwing,.. need to find the adequate term here
Your point number 2 below seems to imply this three-definition-lexique already.
"2. I think Mark was trying to emphasize the point that while Casting Arc and Casting Stroke are two different things (as you point out) they usually occur simultaneously as we cast."
My 0.01 cents
Regards
JF
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[GH] Re: Cast, "My first try": Remember, many casts are best made without a straight line path of the rod tip.
In the past, some have placed Followthrough, back Drift and Pause outside the Casting stroke. Hard to deny, however, that they are part of some overall casts, though not always present.
Re. Your (1) : We could consider terms like "delivering", "propelling", etc. Lefty has suggested, "Unrolling a loop to a target." Lots of ideas, here. The more "experts" one has trying to come to a conclusion, the more likely there will be objections to any one of the terms.
Gordy
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