Stopping the rod 5

Walter & Group...

>From Paul Arden in answer to my request for a reference, yesterday:

Gordy,

I think this is the one, my mobile connection is crap!

http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/rodcast.shtml

I think you'll have seen less distance because when we think stop generally it is preceded by a rapid and short acceleration. I'm sure this is what we're teaching when we say stop. The stop is much more complex than we describe, it is a cushioning move, not a hard stop. A genuinely hard stop creates shock waves in the blank and that's the last thing we want. For me it's all about tip path and acceleration. It's not about energy transfer, since soft stops result in greater energy transfer. At least that's what the physicists tell me.

Cheers Gordy,

Paul

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[GH] Paul:

Thanks. I placed the article in an attachment.

Great study on the complexities of the stop sequence and on the controversial subject of the contributions of "swing" vs. "spring".

On that subject, I'd venture a guess that this ratio would likely vary a great deal between casts and casters.

They noted an interval of only 0.15 - 0.10sec. between the start of the stop sequence and RSP (rod straight position) "when the angular rotation and rod hand speed peak". During that brief interval, the rod tip was moving at its greatest speed despite the caster's intention to "stop".

They observed the stop sequence continuing all the way to MCF (maximum counterflex).

This fits Server Sadik's opinion that the rod hand is still moving and rotating in the direction of the cast while the caster is trying to stop the rod. A paradox!

What I didn't find, was any statement that soft stops result in greater energy transfer, however. Perhaps it appears in a different study...(????).

Gordy

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>From Ken Kastorff:

First, I will admit I am still learning and certainly do not have any answers. But I do have a few observations that lead me to a few questions. It seems like once you pass a certain point in the sharpness of the rod stop on the forward cast, it begins to develop shock waves through the line. Also, stopping the rod sharply and not letting the tip drop quick enough after the stop develops into some pretty nice tailing loops as the rod tip rebounds into the line path of the cast. Is there a happy medium to the stop? Can the stop be too abrupt/sharp? Can the stop be so abrupt that it begins to become impossible to follow through and get the tip down in a fluid and smooth motion? In the effort of stopping can it become too mechanical? I have always looked at the fly cast a a smooth and graceful motion. Can that smoothness in motion be lost?

Ken Kastorff

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[GH] Ken,

The answer to each of your questions is a resounding YES.

A few years ago, Floyd Dean demonstrated this at the Idaho Falls Conclave. He made several casts stopping the rod as "hard" (abruptly) as he could resulting in nice tight loops, a neat layout, and good distance.

Then he made a series of similar casts with one difference..... the stop. As he did these, he had the butt section of the rod come to a complete stop as it struck a steel frame bar. These casts all resulted in vibrations of the rod tip, distance not achieved, and the layouts a tangled mess.

Gordy

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>From Alain Laprade:

Gordy, so useful to be part of the group. I use for the back cast; throw the line to the sky and same thing for the forward cast and come back to the ground. Or use the analogy of trowing a water cup, or cast only the last (tip) section of the rod that's the part that throws the line instead of flip the tip which is sometime confusing for some. I'll be using a lot of the ideas presented for this subject.

For future use of all the subjects of the group, where can we refer to? I read everything while coaching and fishing for atlantic salmon this summer, and be more prepared for fall and winter coaching indoor in Montreal.

Alain Laprade

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[GH] Alain:

At this point we do not have a retrieval system for past messages. Walter Simbirski, of our Group, has been working on a system which when completed will be available to all of us.

Gordy

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>From Jim Chestnut:

Hi Gordy,

As usual this is a very interesting discussion. Just a few thoughts on Paul’s post.

Paul: “this is all backwards. Good flycasting is not about the stop (we know this now), rather it is about how one applies force.”

I agree with that but think the phrase “accelerate to a hard stop” is a good one nonetheless because it is not possible to accelerate “all the way to a stop” that is not a “hard” stop. So, it may also help to get them to accelerate.

Paul: If telling someone to apply an abrupt stop gets them to apply force over a narrower arc then this is all fine and dandy….

Do you think it usually does, or is there a better way? It seems like the abrupt stop teaching technique serves another important function as well besides just a narrowing of the arc. And that is to force the student to keep the rod tip, and consequently the rod leg, higher to significantly aid in learning how to false cast.

Paul: …but where we've gone wrong in the past (myself included) is assuming this is because of the nature of the stop and not was has occurred before.

That certainly seems to be changing very rapidly, due, in large part to you. I’ll bet this trend will also more rapidly increase the progress of intermediate casters – especially those who want to fish the salt.

As a side note, but to the point of the stop, I noticed when casting very heavy “flies” on my 7 wt. (slightly over 1/8 oz), that I use Rastas “cast and release” technique on the “presentation” (such as it is) accelerating as far as possible beyond the horizontal, but releasing the line much earlier.

I would not be surprised if others casting ridiculously unbalanced rigs like that do not do the same thing.

Cheers,
Jim

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[GH] As you probably know, some call that casting of heavy rigs with droppers- multiple flies, split shot, big strike indicators, etc. as : "CHUCK & DUCK" technique. Same with salty fly fishers throwing what looks like "the whole chicken" at marlin.

Gordy

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[GH] Tomorrow: Don Pendleton will describe a modification of a novel method of teaching the casting arc and "stop" with a tennis ball.

Gordy

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