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Walter & Group...
[GH] From Craig Buckbee :
gordy,
in response to Ally's to Mark Surtee's, what am i missing?
i consider getting the tip ring out of the way of the oncoming line very desirable. the tip pulls down, ok, but it pulls down to the extent i allow it to (given my skill and the rod's design) helping shape the loop into a profile i desire. this happens post RSP.
tip travel between RSP1 and MCF gives the legs their safety span, hence enabling the loop unroll.
what would happen with out this event? ..... a collision of the legs, no?
if the the tip was not flexible, as with a broomstick (non-flexing rod) or hand casting, then the caster would have to articulate his body a/o broomstick end to avoid the collision; usually accomplished by a deliberate pull-down.
so it doesn't ADD energy, it certainly enables it, channels it's use... desirable.
sincerely,
craig
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[GH] Craig... I don' think you are missing anything.
If the rod tip is below the path of the oncoming line at RSP, it is because of some degree of tip path convexity during the casting stroke ( as long as you adhere to one definition of the casting stroke as ending at RSP and subscribe to the concept that loop formation starts when the line begins to overtake the rod tip at (or darn close to) RSP.
One can open and therefore widen that loop by exaggerating counterflex AFTER RSP if this is done with sufficient tip travel and force and accomplished early..... and if the momentum of the forward moving loop is not sufficient to negate this deformity.
Theoretically, there should be a collision if the caster really could cast with an absolutely straight line path of the rod tip with do downward deviation at all from the path of the oncoming fly line.
Below, Mark Surtees continues discussion on the "direction of the cast" as he answers Ally Gowan's message.
Gordy
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[GH] From Mark Surtees :
“If Mark has reason to believe that such transient disturbances are beneficial I would be delighted to hear the evidence.”
OK… J
Firstly, I’m still a bit puzzled by what the “the point of line launch direction” actually is.
Assuming we are talking about straight forward overhead casts here, my first question is what is the “direction of the cast” ? If we are false casting then this is normally backwards and forwards and if we tilt the plane in which we are casting we can add a flavor of upwards and downwards too. I’m guessing that Ally's “direction of the cast” is a combo of these two things although it will remain predominantly forwards/backwards. We use the word “trajectory” in casting to indicate the inclination of the tip path between A and B. If you are observing this process there is no unique point on the path between where the rod tip begins at A and ends at B which would give you the slightest inkling of what this direction may be. To deduce the direction you have to examine a section of the path and the longer the section the more likely you are to get the direction right.
So what then is “the point of line launch?” Personally I consider the line to have been “launched” once it begins to pass the rod tip. In a straight line cast the point where it is launched has no effect whatsoever on the direction in which it is launched because this is established largely by the tip path prior to the point at which the line eventually passes the rod tip.
So, if there isn’t a “point” which gives a directional reference and the “point” of line launch doesn’t affect direction either, what “is the point of line launch direction” ?
Lets assume then, because it’s the only other feasible explanation that I can deduce from the questions, is that “the point of line launch direction” is the point that the line has sufficient kinetic energy or momentum to extend forwards without any further force coming via the rod tip.
So let’s see if everything after this point is a commotion which makes no positive contribution to the cast…” these later events are simply undesirable artifacts”
Firstly the point at which the line has sufficient momentum to pass the tip occurs before I introduce a stop, if I stopped before this point there would be insufficient momentum and there would be no loop. So the first undesirable event will be my stop….which is cool… J
After the stop, the whole line continues to be accelerated forwards up to RSP. Now a length of line equivalent to the arc described by the rod between RSP and MCF is pulled forwards and down wards in a quarter circle. If this, or something similar to this doesn’t happen, no loop will form. It can be achieved just by dropping the rod tip or by a curved tip path during the final part of the casting stroke in a “stopless” cast. The section of the line pulled between RSP and MCF undergoes a change in momentum, the whole line does eventually of course, if it doesn’t, it doesn’t turn over. To change the momentum in this bit of line we have to apply a force to it, this force comes from the stored energy in the rod that takes the tip through RSP to MCF. So the second undesirable artifact appears to be the force acting on the line that ultimately causes loop formation and turnover.
Paul, I think, would argue that, undamped, the rebound after MCF will increase tension in the rod leg and increase the speed of the loop which I suppose may or may not be desirable.
If “the point line launch” is when the line or part of the line passes the rod tip then you might be able to argue that later events are undesirable artifacts I guess because it will bypass the objections above…there are others I’m sure, these are just the first two that I can think of..
“An underpowered “cast” is really a mend following a back cast.”
Neat….. J
Mark
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[GH] Mark, Great food for thought over the Christmas Holiday !
I'm also impressed with Ally's novel way to view an underpowered curve cast. I've never been entirely comfortable with my own descriptions of it.
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