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Walter & Group...
More great discussion on hauls.
>From Gary Davison :
Gordy,
1.) Are there any advantages or disadvantages if we start the haul and continue to haul throughout the length of the stroke (forward or backward) or time our haul to coincide with our application of power (power snap)?
To provide the short answer to Mr. Bruno's question.
The advantages and disadvantages depend on you the caster and what level of casting you have achieved.
Long answer:
As a beginner I would say it is very important to haul throughout the stroke. I teach that you begin the haul when the rod start to move and ends when the rod stops. Reason being the student needs to concentrate on the implementation of the haul movement only. Timing the haul will come later with experience.
For the experienced caster there are advantages to hauling through out the casting stroke on the very short cast or very long cast that are being made. Funny how extremes require this more so then those cast in the medium range.
One disadvantage of hauling through out the stroke would be that this may not be the most efficient means of making the cast. It may not be needed yet you are implementing it into the cast. The cast could be made with less effort such as implementing the haul during the power snap of the stroke. Casting inefficiently is a disadvantage.
When I think of "THE HAUL" the word pictures that come into mind are "Feel", "Touch", "Technique" "Timing", and a lot of Practice!!!!,
I liked Mike Sedotti's take on this incredible facet of the Fly Cast.
Being able to haul correctly to obtain the best results with be best efficiency is a major advantage!
Not being able to haul correctly with poor results to the point of frustration and exhaustion is a major disadvantage!
Gary
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>From Mike Heritage :
Are there any advantages or disadvantages if we start the haul and continue to haul throughout the length of the stroke (forward or backward) or time our haul to coincide with our application of power (power snap)?
For pure distance (where I work most) the haul needs to be as late as possible. The danger is finishing the haul too early and losing tension. Far better, for full line distance, is to haul into an unloading rod and make sure the haul finishes after RSP. However, for general casting I tend to haul from where I feel the rod is loaded correctly for the cast I am making because I believe it gives me a smoother cast and better presentation than a fast late haul, so, not all the way through the stroke but earlier than I would when going for distance.
I believe most beginners tend to haul right through the stroke when they learn to d/h and provided they are hauling past RSP and not tailing.
I would not try to refine haul timing until they were much better casters and could make the adjustments without messing up their cast completely.
Mike
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From Rene Hesse :
Gordy,
To Lou's question of an advantage or disadvantage of starting the haul early and continuing through out the cast.
Advantages; Increased line speed
Removes some slack
Decreases the amount of power necessary for the rod hand
Allows you to use the rod as the rudder and the line hand as the accelerator (good for sore arms)
Aids in line pick up on back cast.
Disadvantages; If applied too early and unable to maintain increased acceleration---tailing loop.
If applied too early, fly leg may open up.
You may 'run out of arm' on the line hand by the time we get to the rotation.
It is difficult to maintain a SLP of the rod tip and match the arc to the bend in the rod if the haul is early.
I'm sure there are many more. Pro's and Con's
Rene
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[GH] Rene...
I highlighted what I think is a key statement in your message for discussion in red.
To me, this is the essence of the answer to Lou's question.
As I see it, the start of the haul at various points in the casting arc is arguable. It depends on many factors including the expertise of the caster and the desired accomplishment.
Wherever it starts along with its completion as well as haul intensity (speed and application of power) the common denominator remains that for an efficient cast with an almost straight rod tip path and tight loop, the resultant bend of the rod MUST MATCH THE CASTING ARC. The haul simply enters the equation to the extent of its contribution to rod bend.
In his past writings, Lefty recommended a very short, crisp haul late in the cast, just prior to the stop. Worked fine for him and many accomplished casters. Problem was that the timing for this wasn't easy for many students to learn. Another problem was that it didn't result in high enough loop speed for some of our competition distance casters. Most of them adopted a haul made throughout the casting arc, thus leading to the dictum: "Long cast - Long haul / Short cast - Short haul."
Later, this led to the concept of teaching the haul in concert with the casting arc as a "mirror image" of the casting arc with respect to timing.... and (later) application of power.
One very important question is that of when to STOP the haul when false casting or when to RELEASE the line on the delivery cast. Also, when to RETURN line. We can leave that for future discussion.
Gordy
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[GH] Mac Brown comes in with some "food for thought" for the question, above. I suggest saving it for this future discussion:
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From Scott Swartz :
Gordy,
We know the double haul is a little like rubbing your tummy and patting your head. It is a concept that can be explained, demonstrated and even understood by the student HOWEVER for them to be able to haul they will need to develop muscle memory. This muscle memory comes through repetition of CORRECT hauls.
Being able to pantomime the double haul in sloooow motion can build the needed muscle memory.
Years ago I learned a gem from MCI Wanda Taylor. Use a long rubber band (no rod) and wrap one end around the rod hand thumb and grab the other end with the line hand. Now you can mimic the casting stroke and hauling in sloooow motion. The elasticity of the rubber band simulates the “pull” of the line to cause you to return the line hand after each haul. The beautiful part is the building of muscle memory without the distraction of actually casting line in real time speed. Even better is the ability to do this anywhere. The more frequently you use a motion the faster you get muscle memory and with this drill you can do it often throughout the day. I start with this drill then advance to Lefty’s horizontal single haul “half casts” letting the line fall to the ground to give the student a chance to regroup after each ½ cast.
Finally when the student has learned to double haul and is doing very well I will “handy-cap” them during the horizontal casting drill by sticking the reel under their arm pit and have them grasp the rod two feet up from the cork. This eliminates some of the long arm lever and speed of the rod and will magnify the need for a perfect haul to make a cast.
Best,
Capt. Scott Swartz
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[GH] Scott. You have picked a couple of techniques which sometimes work well to add to our list of haul teaching tricks.
As you know, a master needs to know many of these methods in order to "customize" teaching when his/her usual teaching practices fail to yield a positive result. This gets back to David Diaz's message on being creative when one has a student who is not grasping a concept.
As David did, once in a while, we have to create a teaching ploy which is "not on the books".
The "handy-cap" method does work just as you noted. It simplifies things for the student early by having the rod movement produced by swinging or pivoting the body while eliminating the casting stroke made by the casting arm. This uses the concept of breaking down complex/compound movements into understandable segments before putting them together.
Another example is the method of having the student make the casting stroke while the instructor makes the hauls. Then switching roles.
Of course, the student then has to use what was learned in combination with a true casting stroke. Sometimes that is easier to do by virtue of what preceded this.
A few years ago, Floyd Franke demonstrated this method in a haul teaching workshop given at a Conclave. That was my first introduction to this alternative technique.
Gordy
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From Dan Davala :
From Dan Davala:
"Are there any advantages or disadvantages if we start the haul and continue to haul throughout the length of the stroke (forward or backward) or time our haul to coincide with our application of power (power snap)?"
Short Answer: Both work well so both are correct. The essential ingredient is that the haul is "superimposed" onto the application of power (i.e. they match).
Long Answer: I believe these are two different "styles" of hauling. Superimposing or matching the haul to the power application, however, is the "substance".
If the application of power is long and smooth, then the haul must be long and smooth. If the application of power is short and quick, then the haul must be short and quick. Personally I am a "long hauler" as in I haul smoothly throughout my stroke. I always have been. Maybe this is because I didn't learn to haul from a book or an instructor. When I was about 15 years old I saw Flip Pallot double hauling on an episode of The Walker's Cay Chronicles and I thought it was cool (can you tell how old I am now?). As soon as the episode was over, I headed to the playground with my rod to give it a try. For whatever reason, it just made sense to me to start hauling when I started moving the rod, increasing the speed of the haul as I increased the speed of the rod.
It FELT GOOD - very smooth and relaxed, so I continued to practice and develop this way.
Now, I would never debate whether a "short haul" quickly applied and superimposed onto the "power snap" is effective. Clearly it is and it works very well
AS LONG AS THEY MATCH! If both of these methods work well and achieve the same purpose however (higher line speed and greater rod loading with less effort), then they must be styles. Just as there is no advantage or disadvantage to making a fundamentally good overhead cast in any of the established casting styles as long as the one we choose fits us best, I feel there is no advantage or disadvantage to hauling in either "style" as long as the one we choose feels natural.
As far as TEACHING in either style is concerned I think there are pros and cons to both. Here are the main ones.
"Long Hauling":
Advantage - this style fits very nicely with our fundamental teaching of "short cast, short stroke, short pause", "longer cast, longer stroke, longer pause".
It is simply added as "short cast, short stroke, SHORT HAUL, short pause", "longer cast, longer stroke, LONGER HAUL, longer pause". This just makes sense to a lot of students and keeps things relative to each other. Additionally, students can SEE this style better when demonstrated, especially when it is done very slow. This is a huge advantage when dealing with a VISUAL learner. "Poets" seem to like this style best.
Disadvantage - since the haul is started as soon as the rod begins to move in the casting stroke, certain students may begin to haul too early (just before the rod starts moving) which will result in tailing loops.
"Short Hauling":
Advantage - the PRECISE timing of the haul can be easily communicated to the students. Many students will actually ask, "When EXACTLY do I start to haul?" This style addresses that question the best. Also, there is less overall motion to this style. "Engineers" seem to respond best to this approach.
Disadvantage - with certain students, this style can result in a jerky haul which will cause tailing loops if placed ANYWHERE OTHER THAN directly on top of the "power snap". This style is also much more difficult for students to SEE when demonstrated and it is harder to demonstrate slowly.
In summary, from an analytical standpoint we may view these as "styles", but from an instructing perspective, I like to think of them both as different tools I can use to teach this essential casting skill to different types of students. I believe this all goes to show that as instructors it is best if we can effectively cast and teach in both styles, deciding which is best for each student once we assess what type of student/learner they are.
Dan Davala
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