D loop / Fly rod fighting angles

Walter & Group...

I asked Joan Wulff for her opinion on the origin and modern use of the term, "D loop" :-

Hi, Joan....

 

We've had some discussion during committee work on the use of the term, "D-LOOP".

 

Here are the issues:

 

1.)  Should we use that term to describe the non-active (dead line) back loop draped from the rod tip just prior to the forward stroke of the standard roll cast ?

 

2.) .... Or so you think that term best left to describe the live line back cast loop used for the so-called switch cast and Spey casts ?

 

3.)  As I review your texts and many of those from the American fly casting literature of past years, I find no reference to the term "D-LOOP" applied to any other than live line elliptical casts such as the Spey casts.  Do you know of any such references which I may have missed ?

 

4.) Having read every word of Ernie Schwiebert's 1834 page tome, TROUT and Bergman's book by the same name, I found no reference to the use of that term for roll casting.

 

5.)  In his recently published, FLY FISHING MADE EASY , Ally Gowans clearly uses he term "D" loop for both live line Spey cast back loops and dead line roll cast loops.  Paul Arden of SEXYLOOPS.com takes the same position.

 

 

6.)  Spey casting has been more popular in the UK and EU than here for many years.  Despite that, as I review the works of folks like Charles

Ritz and Hans Gebetsroither, I find no reference to that term at all.

 

7.)  I suspect that the "D-LOOP" term has crept into our American fly casting lexicon recently with the advent of peaked interest in Spey casting in America.... so that some have used it to describe any loop behind the caster prior to the forward move of roll casts whether static or not.  Your opinion ?

 

8.)  Lastly:  I have no idea who may have first coined the term, D-LOOP.   Do you ?

 

 

Gordy

 

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Joan's answer :

 

Hi Gordy,

When teaching the roll cast I have used "the set-up position is like the Letter D".  I think I first used it with my grandchildren and may have used it in a Fly Rod & Reel article about teaching kids.  We use it now at the fishing school.

I think you are right:  it has crept in because of Spey Casting.  I think you can use it for both the live line loop and the dead line roll cast loop, because it gives a defined visual to the student.

Thanks for asking for my thoughts.

warm regards,

Joan

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COMMENT:  I think Joan has placed the use of the term D LOOP clearly in perspective.      G.

 

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                                                  FLY ROD FIGHTING ANGLES

 

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Great question from Lou Bruno :

 

Gordy,

 

I recently read Floyd Franke book, Fish On...Excellent resource to add to a library.

What is the relationship with pressure exerted by the fly rod held at different angles (greater and less than 90 degrees) and line tension?

Lou

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Lou,

This is a question I might ask of a Master candidate on an oral exam under the topic, FISHING, particularly if I know the candidate is primarily a salt water fly fisher.

If you re-read Chapter 3, "Beyond the Rules - Equipment" (pp. 37 - 52) you will get closer to the answer. *

Floyd discusses this mainly in terms of stresses applied to the fly rod in relation to its angle with respect to the horizontal (water surface) when playing a fish.

The LINE TENSION remains the same at either end between the rod tip and the tippet at any given rod angle; however the stress to the fly rod and that to the fish will change a great deal as the rod angle changes.

Actually, in simple terms, there is an inverse relationship between the stress applied at each end of the line with changes in fly rod angle :

 

More vertical rod position = greater stress to the rod tip section = less stress at the tippet

More horizontal rod position = less stress to the rod tip section = greater stress at the tippet.

 

Another way to look at it is to consider that as the fly rod is lowered to a more horizontal position when fighting a large fish, the tip and mid section tend to straighten out and "sort of become part of the line" so the stress to the rod then becomes applicable to the stronger butt section.

 

Since the EFFECTIVE ROD LENGTH is measured as the chord of the arc of a fully bent rod, the higher you raise your rod while fighting a fish , the longer that chord and therefore the longer the effective rod length.**

SO:  By fighting that fish with the longer rod by virtue of its position (high) the more pressure you place on the rod tip section and the less pressure on the fish.

AND:  When fighting the fish with the rod in a more horizontal position, the shorter that chord, so the shorter the effective length of that same rod.  This is the same, functionally, as fighting that fish on a shorter rod.  This yields less pressure on the rod and greater pressure on the fish.

Go back and check out Figure 1.1 on p. 4 and Figure 3.4 on p. 47.  As you do that, translate the term "shock absorbancy" to "pressure on the rod tip" and it will help form the picture.

I strongly recommend that you read Lefty Kreh's writing on this subject in his, LEFTY KREH'S ULTIMATE GUIDE TO FLY FISHING.   Lefty goes into this and much more in detail including the needed changes in rod angle during various aspects of the battle.***

Also;  check out the text and related diagrams in Fig. 5-7 and Fig. 5-8 in Don Phillips' THE TECHNOLOGY OF FLY RODS. ****

 

Now let's go out on the water and imagine we've hooked a 100 lb. tarpon while using a 10 wt. salt water fly rod and a 20 lb. tippet.

 

1.   At the start of the battle, during the fish's wild antics, leaps and powerful runs, I'll want to keep my rod at a more vertical angle to protect my tippet.  This also allows me to bow to a jumping fish.

2.  After the fish has made it's first hard run or two,  I'm more interested in applying lots of pressure to that big fish than in providing shock absorbency to my tough salt water fly rod.

3. Now the fish is less frenetic, but still powerful. If I fight that fish with either a long rod (like a 14' Spey rod or a 9' fly rod held almost vertical), I'll not be able to apply sufficient pressure at the tippet end, so it may take me a very long time to subdue the creature thus tireing it excessively and very much increasing the battle time which increases the very real chance of a shark attack.

The longer I take to subdue the fish, the greater chance of loss to a shark and the greater the wear on my shock tippet ("bite" tippet ).

4.  On the other hand, if I hold my rod more horizontally (or use a very short fly rod) I can apply much more pressure to the tippet .... and therefore to the fish.  I'll do exactly that in order to break the spirit of this huge fish as quickly as I can without unduly fatiguing the creature thus allowing for an expeditious and successful release.

Donald Larmouth once said of tarpon, "They will not tire themselves out, and if you just lift your rod and bend the tip you could be there long enough to become a hazard to navigation."*****

I like to think of it this way:  BREAK THE SPIRIT OF THE FISH.... DON'T BREAK THE FISH !

I simply can't do that with long rods or effectively long rods held high.

The reverse is true when I fight a trout using an 8X tippet !

 

* FISH ON ! A Guide to Playing and Landing Big Fish on a Fly, by Floyd Franke,

ISBN 1-58667-070-0.

 

** IN THE RING of the RISE, by Vincent C. Marinaro, 1976, Lyons Press, pp. 52-54.

 

*** LEFTY KREH'S ULTIMATE GUIDE TO FLY FISHING, by Lefty Kreh, 2003, ISBN 1-59228-111-7, pp. 373 - 392,

 

**** THE TECHNOLOGY OF FLY RODS, by Don Phillips, 2000, ISBN  1-57188-190-5, pp. 47-49.

 

***** TARPON ON FLY by Donald Larmouth and Rob Fordyce, 2002, ISBN 1-57188-270-7, p. 67.

 

Other references :

HIGH ROLLERS, FLY FISHING FOR GIANT TARPON by Bill Bishop, 2009, ISBN 978-09793460-8-8, pp. 123-126.

FLY FISHING Simple to Sophisticated, by Al Kyte, 1987, ISBN 0-88011-285-9, pp. 144-146.

FLY FISHING FOR STRIPED BASS (Masters on the fly), by Rich Murphy, 2007, ISBN 9780974642727 , pp. 232, 239 & 410 (Pictures of rod angle while applying pressure to the fish.)

 

Gordy