End of line problem / Hookups with poppers / Rod math. / Fishing

Walter & Group......

One last message before I leave ....

Question from Jim Penrod:

Hi Gordy,

      A question for later-I have been wade fishing some grass flats using cupped poppers and pencil poppers and have had some tremendous strikes, apparent hooked fish, but after about five seconds the fish is unhooked-frustrating. Only exception is what I think was a rather large blue. It came up under the pencil popper and then went about three feet in the air. I thought it had missed but then the line jammed tight and popped "above" my loop to loop connection. Any advice??

   My line broke above the loop to loopconnection right at the knot. Usually I have had the lower part of the upper loop split. I have yet to figure out how to get a good hookup on the poppers when it seems that the fish really has a good hold. Frustrating!
Jim
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Jim...

 

After lots of casting, especially with hours of practice, the fly line coating wears thin.... eventually wears through.  Then the fly line core starts to wear and weaken.  I have had this happen with nail knot attachments between the butt section of the leader and the fly line, or any of the other knot choices I've used.  Least likely with the whipped loop in the end of the line.  I have not had it happen yet with the factory welded loops at the end of the Airflo lines.

 

When I've been lazy and have not replaced my butt section after lots of casting, the nylon mono will weaken where it goes into the loop knot, but I've not had that actually break.  It does break at that point when placed on the line tester after lots of casting over time.

 

Re. the good hookup when using poppers......   JOIN THE CLUB !   Most of us have the same problem.  It is much more difficult to get that hook into the jaw of a fish when it's part of a popper.  

 

I tried making some poppers with thin wire razor sharp fresh water hooks and still had the problem, though there was some improvement. (Most poppers use thick hooks some of which are hard to sharpen and keep sharp.)  I think it is due to many factors, the hook being just one.  We must include the fact that you are pulling on the popper itself as you make the strike and it doesn't move as fast as a fly would partly because of its mass and mainly because you are pulling it against water resistance.  I have a higher hookup ratio when I use an intermediate line when fishing poppers. 

 

Soon I'll try popper fishing using fly lines with the low stretch core....   and let you know.

 

I LOVE hooking tarpon on a popper.... but don't hold many for long.  One reason is the poor hookup and the other is the fact that the popper has mass making it easier for the tarpon to fling it out of the mouth with a jump.  Works much better when fishing black bass or jacks.  Tiny poppers work fine when fishing pan-fish.

 

Gordy

 

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                                                           "ROD MATH"

 

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Good question for our math buffs / engineers from Rene Hesse:

 

Gordy,

I'm no rocket surgeon or brain engineer :-) however like you said there is an advantage to fighting a large fish with a shorter rod.

I understand the concept of the lever and the distance from the fulcrum... I wonder if there is anyone in the group that could give me the equation for the the lifting power advantage of a shorter lever.

 

We have some great math in this group and I'd like to get that equation too.

 

Thanks again for the tarpon trip of a life time,

 

Rene

 

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Rene....

 

Remember...  There is PHYSICAL (linear)  rod length (length as measured with no bend) and FUNCTIONAL rod length.  The latter is known as the EFFECTIVE ROD LENGTH and has been defined as the chord subtending the arc of the fully bent rod.***

 

Many other factors to consider when fighting fish ! *

 

This was first described by Vincent Marino back in 1976 **

 

Also discussed in detail by Don Phillips in 2000. ***

 

In talking about this concept with Steve Rajeff  yesterday we realized that to make the measurement of this chord meaningful, we'd have to define as a constant, the angle of the fly rod with respect to that of the line of resistance.  To be really accurate, we'd also have to define the term "fully".    Steve tells me that they do it that way with different angles as they purposely test rod blanks for breakage resistance at the G.Loomis rod factory.

 

Gordy

 

* FISH ON! A Guide To Playing And Landing Big Fish on a Fly, by Floyd Franke,  ISBN 1-58667-070-0, pp. 37-52.

 

** IN THE RING OF THE RISE, by Vincent Marino, 1976, Lyons Press, (No ISBN),  pp. 51-55.

 

***  THE TECHNOLOGY OF FLY RODS, by Don Phillips,  Frank Amato Pub., 2000, ISBN 1-57188-190-5, pp. 45-49.

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                                                                     MORE ON ROD LENGTH

 

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From Peter Morse:

 

Gordy and crew. I haven't used a no-ferrule rod but in a discussion 
with Jerry Siem at the Denver show last year I asked Jerry what he 
thought the single greatest advancement in rod design was over the 
last 20 years - his answer surprised me - "ferrule technology".  
Broken rods are usually a consequence of poor rod bending technique - 
too much pressure applied to the wrong part of the bend (or of course 
damage to the blank wall). The greater the pressure you need to put on 
a fish the further down the rod you need to apply the bend. Short rods 
are very good for this. I have  had only 2 rods break at the ferrule, 
one a prototype 16 weight, that's why it was a prototype,  and the 
other when the bottom ferrule came loose - a friend was using it at 
the time, and the female section cracked.

For me shorter rods have two very distinct advantages over longer rods.
Less leverage working against the angler than there is in a long rod, 
especially when "up and down".
They are easier to be accurate with, hence the proliferation of 
shorter bass style rods for fishing big flies in tight cover.

I would like to cast a no-ferrule rod but I suspect that its mostly 
"in the mind". It would be interesting to do a blind test with one 
piece through to four piece rods with some "placebos" stuck in there 
with no ferrules but made to look like they have ferrules.


Peter Morse
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Peter...   Jerry may well be correct.  ( I don't know if he's designed and made any of the one piece rods at Sage.)

 

Problem is that we're humans and subject to human error.  I'm no different.  Even though I'm keenly award of potential ferrule problems, there are times when I fail to heed my own advice and cast with one which has come a bit loose.  OK most of the time...... until you hook that big one !

 

Call it subjective....  but I love the feel of those one piece rods.  Especially when we get up to the higher rod designations.

Gives me great confidence as I apply max pressure to a fish.

 

Gordy

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                                                                        FISHING

 

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Steve Rajeff and Chris Sepio got a grand slam on my skiff 2 days ago. (Bonefish, Tarpon and Permit). This from Capt. Scott Swartz:

 

Gordy,

 

Congratulations to Steve and Chris (and especially your guiding) on the grand slam.

 

Way to GO!!!!!

 

Best,

Scott Swartz
www.floridaflyfishingschools.com
www.atlantaflyfishingschool.com

 

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Scott...    Thanks.  Credit goes to my two anglers.

 

Not once did I have to even turn the skiff as the fish was sighted.  Perfect presentations including lightning fast reaction times, 80' plus back cast presentations into the wind, etc., etc.

 

Both anglers handled themselves well on the skiff.  One would make his catch and the other would expertly release the fish.... so I rarely had to get down from the poling platform except for the "HI -FIVE" after each release.   No advice from the tower needed as they expertly fought these fish.

 

Once, while staked out, we had one of those huge barracudas which are World wise and not "catchable" hovering at skiff side.  Wouldn't take anything.  Steve showed him something he'd likely not seen before..... a tiny sparkling streamer (such as we've used on small landlocked salmon in Maine) with a short #1 wire bite tippet.  He dappled it and teased that cuda 'till he could stand it no longer and took right up on the surface about 2' from the starboard chine.  Looked like a missile on the jump !

 

In all......... A SKIFF GUIDE'S DREAM !!!!!!

 

Gordy