Fighting large fish / Bruce Richards / Ballistics

Walter & Group...

From Jerry Puckett:

Damon and Gordy:

 

If you have access to Gary Borgers book, "Presentation" starting on Page 13, Hooking, Playing and Landing Fish there is a detail discussion on playing fish, much too long for an e-mail.

 

I have been able to save the day with a fish heading Downstream by playing the fish with 90 degree horizontal pressure toward the bank turning its head where the water may not flow as strong.  I am sure I am repeating what you already know and that is keep turning the fishes head and exerting pressure side ways, seems to cut the play time in half!

 

Not sure this is a clear e-mail but Borger's discussion is crystal clear..

 

When you find what works Damon be sure and let us Know!

 

Jerry Puckett

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Jerry...    I checked your reference.  The page numbers are: pp 153-165.  (I remembered that pagination of this book was a bit strange....  first page is p. 15.  Also, there is no page 166. (It's blank.))

 

PRESENTATION by Gary Borger, 1995, Tomorrow River Press, ISBN: 0-9628392-5--6, pp. 153-165.  

 

I think this is one of the best books ever written on fly fishing !  A shame it is out of print.  I'd sure love to see a re-printing of it.

 

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Bill Toone :

Gordy regarding drag settings I tend to keep them on the light side for the particular circumstance but add palm pressure when I feel the need for more drag.  I have found this to be pretty successful but does require some touch and intuition.  I don’t like adjusting the drag in mid fight, having screwed up a time or two with disastrous results.  I would rather have the drag be light (for the fishing conditions) and manually add pressure as the circumstance dictates.  I have used this technique successfully for trout, bass, small salmon, bonefish in the 2 – 4 pound range and big B Run Steelhead.  Similar concept of course to the leather tabs.  Since I don’t have the experience with the salt water fish like tarpon, marlin, tuna, etc., you have I don’t know it would work for them.

Just another view point…

 

Regards,

Bill Toone

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bill...   Most of the time your method works fine even on large salty fish.

Having said that, I realize that some of the record size tarpon taken in the Homosassa area of Florida are subdued with the use of what some of us in the Keys call the "HOMOSASSA DRAG". 

 Simply put, this is a much heavier drag setting than we've been discussing used as a "do or die" technique in order to attempt the landing of World class monster tarpon by anglers often intent on achieving a record.  The concept is one of applying so much pressure to these fish from the get-go that the angler breaks the spirit of the fish to continue fighting even though the creature is no where near tuckered out.  I do the same thing here in the Florida Keys when fishing an area where there is a very high risk of having the tarpon eaten by a bull shark. 

..........................................................If the tippet breaks and the fish gets away my buddy, Dave Sylvester,  gets a funny smile and says, "You gotta be good to be pre-historic "! 

 

Before I embraced that concept, years ago I hooked an enormous tarpon while fishing on Dave's skiff near my home on Big Pine Key.  I hooked that fish at 6:12 pm on the flat and didn't finish him off until 1:10 the next morning.... a 7 hour battle. 

Some record seekers will bring one of these huge fish to the skiff and once they are as sure as they can be that it is of record size, they use a large sharp "kill gaff" to stick the tarpon way down on the underbelly in order to turn the fish upside down as quickly as they can.  Once inverted most fish seem to become paralyzed. (Peter Minnick and I released a huge poon a couple of days ago... she sank to the bottom in 4' of water upside down and couldn't move.  Peter tilted her vertical with my push pole and she bolted off.) 

Nowadays, most record seekers go through a detailed litany of measurements, weights on a pre-certified scale, photos taken with measuring device, witness to the catch and the weights & measurements, etc. etc. in order to release the fish and still submit an IGFA application.  Problem is that with a large tarpon, you can't weigh the fish without bring it in dead.  Also.... IGFA rules state that the fish must be weighed on land. 

 Fortunately, few fish are ever "kill gaffed" there or here in the Keys for none of us has the stomach for killing these magnificent creatures.  Great is the embarrassment for the guide and angler who mis-judge the size of the fish as they kill one which doesn't toe the mark !  That combined with the fact that the angler or guide must have a pre-purchased tag for any tarpon killed in Florida waters, helps protect these fish.

Unfortunately, I have witnessed thousands of tarpon netted in Mexico only to be used for fertilizer and hacked up for use as baits in fish traps !

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let me remind all interested in tarpon fishing that Lefty has recommended two more books with lots of really good information on this subject.  I agree fully ! :

1.) TARPON ON FLY, Donald Larmouth & Rob Fordyce, Frank Amato Pub., 2002, ISBN: 1-57188-270-7.

2.) HIGH ROLLERS, Fly Fishing For Giant Tarpon, by Bill Bishop, Stackpole Books, 2009, ISBN: 978-0-9793460-8-8

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

                                                                        BRUCE RICHARDS

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Mac Brown:

HI Gordy,

My email address for Bruce came back so I figure it must have changed. Nice article in the attachment on Bruce. Wanted to tell him congratulation on becoming a man of "leisure". Having Montana to take this leisure will be rough, but someone has to do it! The breakthroughs in technology and product development have been legendary during his work at SA. Best of luck Bruce.

Cheers, Mac Brown

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mac....  Bruce will never be truly a "man of leisure".  He's almost never not teaching or fishing when unshackled from business.

You probably used his corporate email address.  Now he uses:  sfrbwr@xxxxxxxxxx.

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                                            MORE ON FIGHTING FISH

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

From Gary Eaton:

Gordy,

 

Turning a big fish seems a matter of angles and timing. Sooner is better and side pressure that shifts to immediately resist the turns the fish offers may frustrate the hooked trout. Making the fish do what you want is partly anticipating the fish actions and keeping the fish working, not resting. The best collection of maneuvers I have seen in one place is Floyd Franke's Fish On! A Guide to Playing and Landing Big Fish on a Fly Chapter Five lists common fish actions and counter moves. Saltwater species may not universally respond as Franke describes.

 

A more fundamental issue common to all tackle versus fish challenges is the tippet strength. It seems advantages the fish gains by diving may quickly exceed the angler's tackle limits. Franke also estimates that the fish downstram of the angler gains many additional advantages for using the flow to increase tippet pressure. The chances of dragging a sizeable fish against strong current to the net diminish with distance, fish size, and fineness of tippett.

 

Short answer - stop the fish - keep it's head up - act quickly to reverse side pressure opposite  fish turns - have enough tippet strength to accomodate all of these actions.

 

Gary Eaton, MCCI

ref: Fish On! A Guide to Playing and Landing Big Fish on a Fly by Franke, F ISBN 1-58667-070-0 c 2003 Derrydale Press

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Gary...   When Floyd was in the throes of writing that book, he asked me (at Lefty's suggestion) to assist with the stuff on salt water fishing.  I did so, and offered a couple of the pictures which you will see as you read it .  One is a photo of me doing the, "Down & Dirty" on a tarpon.  This entails placing your rod tip way down in the water when the fish is tired and close by in order to turn it upside down.  When accomplished even for a brief moment, it really discombobulates the creature and shortens landing time.

 

Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``+

 

                                                             BALLISTICS ANALOGY

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Ed Chamberlain is a retired Col., U.S. Army Rangers as well as one of our MCCI's.  He has this to say about ballistics :

 

Hi Gordy,

 

  Late rolling in on this one, but you are correct. Vertical and horizontal velocities are independent, and induced drag on a shot bullet is immaterial. 

 A bullet dropped from the muzzle of a weapon and the bullet shot (from a perfectly horizontal barrel alignment) will strike the ground at the same time.

  All the examples about fast line speed and greater distance are correct, all objects fall at same rate, the faster ones hit the ground farther from the start point than the slower.  As aside, when zeroing a weapon, we change the sights to elevate (or depress) the muzzle to cause the bullet to cross the line of sight for the distance we are setting the sights (zeroing).  The trajectory changes. But not the rate of fall of the bullet.  A 230 gr .45 cal bullet traveling 850fps will strike the ground at the same time a 55gr 5.56mm bullet traveling 3400 fps will, assuming both are fired exactly parallel to the ground.  (The 5.56 bullet is much farther downrange of course)  Probably more than anyone on this forum wants to hear about ballistics and battle sight zero. 

 Enjoyed the time in the Keys and thanks for the Tarpon tutorial.  Regards, Ed

 

Ed Chamberlain

U.S. Army (Retired)

Rangers Lead the Way!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~