That was a Gem on Reel drag setting thank you.

I will add two things one is the use of spun Gel backing to reduce the drag in the long running fish. The smaller diameter offer less drag in the water.

Remember the old leather tab we added to the reels to let us control the drag by pressing on the tab?

One more thing from the good old days If you were using a Medalist reel with the leather break blocks.

If you did not keep a little oil on them they would dry out in the heat. If you used 3-1 oil that was whale oil it

was ok. But if you used a paraffin base oil it would smoke on the bigger fish. Hence "That fish Smoked MY REEL".

Allen R. Crise
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Al.... You and I are old enough to remember all that !!!

Thanks for adding the idea of reducing water drag with Spectra backing. I agree fully.

A lot to this. A question which sometimes comes up under "fishing tackle" or "fly fishing" during a Master exam is the effect of a large arbor reel on fighting a big fish.

When a large fish runs way out there, the backing peels off and the effective diameter of the reel spool (distance from the center of the spool and the outside of the remaining backing ) diminishes. This results in dramatically increasing the drag .... the farther the fish runs, the tighter the drag gets even when you don't touch the drag knob. Many fish are lost because of this when the angler doesn't back off the drag setting to accomodate this phenomenon.

With a large arbor reel, this effect is a lot less, since the effective diameter of the spool doesn't decrease nearly as much as backing peels off. Same is true of a very wide spool reel. The large arbor reel, however, has two advantages over the wide spool models: 1.) You can retrieve a lot more line with each turn of the handle. ( a big advantage when the fish runs toward you.) and 2.) You are less likely to bunch up the backing and fly line and jam the reel as you reel the line back than you are with the wide spool reel.

Then there are the pros and cons of using direct drive reels vs. anti-reverse models.

My take is this: I like the anti-reverse reels for fishermen unacustomed to fighting really big fish. Most seasoned big game fly fishermen prefer the direct drive reels with rim drag capability. These allow better and more flexible control by those well experienced in their use. For example< with the direct drive reel, you can apply lots more pressure to finish off a big fish with less likelihood of breaking the tippet. Reason ?.... because you can have a moderate drag setting, yet apply lots of additioinal pressure with the rim drag. If the fish gives a surprise lurch or spring, you can instantly release the finger pressure on the rim.

(I had Peter Minnick on my skiff this morning .... he took a 100 lb or so tarpon in timely fashion by using this method. Advantage ? We were able to release the critter before a shark ate him and without exhausting the fish completely. Helped a lot that he used a rod which is our favorite for this caper: An 8 1/2' Loomis Mega 10-11. This rod casts beautifully, yet is a super advantage when fighting a fish, because the tip and mid section bend way down to a beefed up butt section.... this means that when applying max pressure to the fish, the angler is using a rod which is effectively about 4' to 5' long.)

Ref: LEFTY KREH'S Ultimate Guide To Fly Fishing, pp. 113-120.

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From David Lambert :

Gordy:

Re: Hang time. I'd always defined hang time as that period of time

after the line mostly had unrolled, before it begins to drop significantly.

I'm not sure we should define hang time as beginning at RSP. I'd say

hang time is the period of time that elapses between rod rebound and

before the line drops significantly to disrupt the next cast. Line

shoot affecting the cast would depend on at what angle the line is

proceeding rearward, I'd think, and the length of the shoot. That seems

to be a slippery slope.

I'd say the absence of drift would contain the line and hasten line

fall, thus reducing hang time. As to whether drift lengthens hang time,

the direction of rod tip during drift would have an affect on it

Best and all.

David

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David.... Good way to look at it. G.

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LIFT v. GRAVITY

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Hi Gordy,

I'm not a scientist, but got your bullet analogie confirmed by Norma

(Amunition/bullet manufactor).... The wind has of course an affect on it, but

in no windy conditions, just the atmospheric resistance there will be no

difference.

But Gordy!

If we wind our line up to a ball and drop it from the same higth as the tip

deliver our cast, we will get some interesting differents if we compare the time

factor when casting our line in a flat trajectory (level to ground line

plane).

If we just focus on the loop formation and the speed of the loop-wheel (let the

line speed/velocity be for a while). That's the tools for fighting the gravity.

As earlier mentioned in this group we have NO airodynamic lift power, just drag

forces. If we compare our loop-wheel-rotation to the bullet, the rotation makes

the bullet stable and gives it a good balance to pass trough the atmospheric

resistance. The same thing happens when forming a good loop. Tighter loop makes

faster rotation and give stability to pass trough the atmospheric resistance.

Then we have the drag force in the loop that fight the gravity (in the same way

NASA makes weightless testing rooms for austronauts... I gess :-) scientists!

fill in or correct).

However,

In the bullet thing.... The time factor are the same. It's just a matter of how

much gunpowder you use. More gunpowder = higher volocity and the bullet will go

further at the same time.

The highest possible tip speed will make our fly line travels the longest

possible time. But of course! Only if we can deliver the energy in a straight

direction and maintain the good loop formation with a high speed loop rotation

to create the best drag forces.

As I said earlier! I'n not a scientist, so don't get me wrong, just correct and

fill in you don't agree.

But, to be honest.... If we all keep on in this study group... We will soon be

really good amateur scientists :-)

Thanks

//Thomas Berggren, The Swede

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Thomas ....

You may not be a scientist, but I cannot disagree with your statements ! Different words to explain the same thing makes for good teaching.

Also: It is NOT my intent to try to make scientists of us all. I do feel, however, that some basic physics can help us understand what is going on as we cast and gives us some background of understanding to help us teach. To share all this with each student ? Absolutely not !

I'm a surgeon, not a physicist.... yet I am fascinated by what I have been learning from our real scientists ..

Gordy

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From Damon Newpher:

Good Morning Gordy and Group,

I have one comment to make and it doesn't help answer any questions concerning line drag or reel drag settings. It's only another way a great fish fights its way off the hook and I'm sure everyone else has it happen to them all the time.

In the rivers that we fish in NW PA the large trout, mainly browns, run downstream and deep very quickly. It's a scenario much like Gordy's response #2 to Jim. Now for my comment.

Not only do we have the large belly of line that develops with these long runs the current of the river also creates drag in the line belly, further deepening it. With light tippets in the 5x and 6x range this is troublesome. With this happening frequently. Other than chasing the fish with the boat or running down the bank. Does anyone have suggestions on how to turn the fishes head. The only thing that I've came close to curing this issue and it doesn't always work is to let slack in the line so the fish stops fighting and then it will sometimes return upstream.

I know this isn't a casting issue and more of a fishing issue any suggestions would be great for future big fish landing.

Thanks for everything and all of the great learning material.

Damon

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Fly FISHING is one of the 5 prime subjects covered in the MCCI exam..... so I consider it fair game.

DO ANY OF YOU HAVE A TRICK TO SOLVE DAMON'S PROBLEM SCENARIO ?

Gordy

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An enduring life

By Steve Griffin from http://ourmidland.com/articles/2009/06/08/local_news/1859746.txt
for the Daily News

Published: Monday, June 8, 2009

Avid fly fisherman Bruce Richards poses for a portrait with his fly fishing rod on the Tittabawassee River on Thursday afternoon. He has been fly fishing for 45 years. "It's like a chess match between you and the fish," said Richards. "They know what's going on and when you outwit a big fish it feels very satisfying." An innovator at Scientific Anglers, Richards recently retired after more than 30 years of work. He and his wife plan to move Montana soon, where the fly fishing and outdoor life is great, said Richards.

The legacy of the 1992 movie, "A River Runs Through It," endures, and if you were captivated by its graceful flycasting, you might give some of the credit to Midlander Bruce Richards.

Richards, who retired last week after 33 years with Midland-based Scientific Anglers/3M, oversaw development and production of the fly lines that helped create the image and the boom in fly fishing that followed it.

It's just one of many landmarks in a career that found him fishing on several continents, hanging out backstage at rock concerts, honored by an esteemed fly fishing magazine, tying saltwater flies for presentation to a sitting U.S. president - and, of course, developing trailblazing fly fishing tackle.

    All this and more, by someone who never planned to be in the tackle business.

    Richards, 58, figured on working with fish somehow, earning a degree in aquatic ecology from Michigan Technological University. But before that happened, his Midland upbringing caught up with him.

    He had grown up fishing with his dad, the late Bud Richards, and Bud's friend Rod Towsley, who became sales manager of Scientific Anglers. Their circle included Doug Swisher, Carl Richards (no relation to Bud and Bruce) and well-known flyrodders.

    Richards was also friends since childhood with Bob Philip, who became plant manager of Scientific Anglers.

    Towsley left the company, leaving a key opening. "Bob Philip sent me an application," Richards said, "and told me, 'You need to fill this out.'"

    By then, Richards had taught fly casting at the summer school conducted by the Michigan Council of Trout Unlimited, and his combination of fishing experience, casting expertise, fly tying prowess, education and mechanical aptitude got him the job - first as a sales coordinator, then "at one time or another just about every job in the plant," his last post product development manager.

     "I was developing lines all the time, too. I had an affinity for machinery, how to make it work better for us. I was an aquatic biologist with a mechanical knack."

    The job brought a variety of experiences.

    He fondly remembers the late 1970s, when he was invited to hang out with the rock group Three Dog Night when the band visited Michigan, catching their concert from backstage and fishing with them the next morning.

    During the administration of George Bush (Bush '41), he tied a tarpon fly, "Black Death" that was then captured in a drawing by Midland artist (and Richards's childhood neighbor) Beth Ward Donahue, for presentation to Bush.

    Richards received Angler of the Year honors from Fly Rod & Reel magazine in 2007, the first time the award went to a fly fishing business insider.

    He currently chairs the Casting Instructor Certification Program of the Federation of Fly Fishers, "certifying experts around the world."

    He has also served on the American Fly Fishing Trade Association Board.

    But much of his stamp on fly fishing originated in the casting-pond-fronted building on James Savage Road, where he helped pioneer modern fly line design, "based on technology rather than old wives' tales."

    An example of the latter, he said, was the long-standing belief that lines to be used on small streams should not only be delicate, but have a long taper.

    But on a small stream a cast often doesn't even include all of the taper, meaning the caster isn't using the weight built into the line to deliver the fly. The solution was a compound taper.

    "We used physics to develop lines. We build lines dedicated to what they're supposed to do."

    Richards received a patent for AST (Advanced Shooting Technology), a coating incorporated into fly lines that was introduced in 2001. Nearly free of friction, AST keeps line slick and clean, higher floating and longer lasting - all big benefits to anglers.

    A half-dozen years later, he was part of the team that brought to market SharkSkin, a fly line textured with what the company calls a "repeating geometric micro-pattern" that creates the 'lotus effect,' making the line cast more easily and float higher.

    Richards said the fly fishing business, like the lines it creates, has changed.

    "When I started, Scientific Anglers was a lot smaller, a maker of fly lines, reels and rods, high-end equipment." The company, formed in 1945 in Midland by Leon P. Martuch and others, enjoyed steady but slow growth, Richards said.

    Then came that Robert Redford movie, and the explosion of interest if ignited in fly fishing as a peaceful, solitary outdoor experience, especially for those whose maturing bodies no longer tolerated competitive-style sports.

    Fly fishing's double-digit growth leveled off about 10 years ago, said Richard. He's convinced it's poised to grow again, though. "We need to figure out how to get computer kids outdoors; when we do that, it will happen again."

    His job required plenty of trips to the 3M corporate headquarters in St. Paul, Minn., but it also sent Richards to New Zealand, Australia, Europe, Scandinavia, Central America, South America and Japan - almost always with some fishing involved.

    A week or so ago, in fact, he was fishing the fabled Test River in England, with 3M's CEO.

    The quarry is often exotic - but not always.

    In a full-page photo in the June issue of Field & Stream, Richards does battle with a carp, what flyrodders are calling a "golden bonefish." Turn the page, and he's releasing his catch.

    His favorite fishing spots? He won't accept a limitation to just one, but lists the Bahamas, Montana, and New Zealand or Australia. The future might find him in one of those; he and his wife Suzanne (whom he met while teaching at a fly fishing school) own property in Montana, although he said there's something to say for a place that has more hospitable winters than either Michigan or Montana.

    Meanwhile, he'll still be around Midland.

    "It's hard leaving Scientific Anglers - and I'm not doing a great job of that, either," he said with a laugh. After a 30-day hiatus, Richards will return on a part-time, consultant basis, to continue product development. He also plans to return to writing a book on casting, plus revision of his previous book on fly lines.

Drag settings / "Hang time" /

An enduring life

By Steve Griffin from http://ourmidland.com/articles/2009/06/08/local_news/1859746.txtfor the Daily News

By Steve Griffin from http://ourmidland.com/articles/2009/06/08/local_news/1859746.txt
for the Daily News