Loop fall / Quiz answers

Walter & Group....

Question from Chase Jablonski :

Hi Gordy,

If the flyline cannot generate lift, why does it take so long for an unrolling loop to reach the ground? By my estimation it can take 3-4 seconds on a long carry. That loop is 10-12 ft off the ground, so without wind resistance it should take about half of a second. I find it hard to believe the wind resistance on an extended line so great as to make it fall that much slower than it should.


Chase

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Chase,

 

Good question, since it represents the main reason the "mystique" of the climbing loop keeps coming up.  Your question, however, is on the loop which doesn't fall as fast as one would predict.  Many misconceptions out there !

 

Drag forces act on the front of the fly line loop contribute to keeping it aloft even as they slow it down.  I must admit that I, too, questioned that it could be enough to explain why the fly line loop stays up so long ..... but the physicists are convinced that this is the primary reason and they made measurements and calculations that I'm not capable of doing.

 

These forces, we are told, act to yield a "lift".  The loop with a positive angle of attack (sharp at the top) was shown to gain four times the amount of "lift" than the symmetrical (rounded) loop.

 

Both loops stay aloft longer than they would if this were not the case.

 

Noel Perkins' paper, "WHAT ARE THE DRAG FORCES ON THE LOOP AND HOW DO THEY SLOW ITS FALL?" goes in to this in depth.  The paper by Caroline Gatti-Bono and Noel Perkins entitled, "EFFECT OF LOOP SHAPE ON THE DRAG INDUCED LIFT OF THE FLY LINE"  examined this "lift" effect of form drag on the two main different loop shapes.

 

They also showed that skin friction reduces the rate of fall of the loop by the square of the speed of the fly leg.

 

Let me repeat that this is not the same kind of "lift" produced by an airplane wing since it has nothing to do with an airfoil or the Bernoulli principle as described by Phil Gay for us on Monday. 

 

                                                               To make this clear to all:-

 

 

KISS PRINCIPLE ANSWER:   There are two meanings for the word "lift".  (Several more, as well.  We can have "lift" as a verb when we heft something heavy.  In England, they call an elevator a LIFT.  We speak of a mood "lift".  Then we have a "face lift".: ...etc., etc.)

 

1.)  Lift in the case of an airplane:   Here the bottom of a wing is flat.  The top is curved.  The air passes over both surfaces in the same time period.  Since the curved top is longer, the air has to go faster.  This generates suction which sucks the airplane up. (really keeps it from falling).

 

2.) "Lift" in the case of the fly line : We are taught that this is due to air drag on the outer skin of the fly line loop.  It is 4 times more efficient when the loop is pointed at the top.  That is called, "form drag" since it relates to the form or shape of the loop.

 

3.) The faster the fly leg of the loop is traveling, the greater the effect of this "lift" so the slower it will fall.

 

Gordy

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                                                         ANSWER TO QUIZ

 

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From Al Crise  My comments in his text in bold blue italics      G. :

 

New questions to finish up on our discussion of MENDS :

1.) Define an on-the-water mend.

     Reposition of the fly line to improve drag free drift of the fly.

 

Yes.  I'd add, "performed after the line has landed on the water."    G.

 

2.) What is a VERTICAL HUMP MEND ?

 

     After the ‘stop’ the rod tip is moved vertically placing slack in the rod leg.

 

Agree.  Sometimes called a "pop mend".  The rod tip is moved up and down to make vertical waves in the line. Then the line falls in waves of slack.  Can be done with one "pop" or multile ones.   G.

 

3.) When would you use it when fishing a stream ?

 

     Short distances, down stream or weighted fly, to get it down in the water column

Yes.   G.

 

4.) Is it performed on-the-water or in-the-air ?

            This is a In The Air mend.   (Nature of Fly Casting pp.198)

 

It can also be used as an on-the-water mend.  EXAMPLE:  You have fish feeding down stream from you.  You made a short cast with a dry fly.  To make a good drag free drift to the fish, you make a series of small vetical mends ... Pop..Pop...Pop...pop....  The fly reaches the feeding area neither drowning or dragging.    G.

 

5.) Briefly describe a REACH MEND.

      Drawing the rod tip to the side (Up stream) after the loop is formed. Line is slipped or a cast past the target area with a draw back to set the slack.

 

Yes.  Since it is a reach MEND, it is done after the cast.  (A reach CAST is performed during the cast.. before RSP.) G.

 

6.) One author described a PARACHUTE MEND in text.  Who is that ?  Cite your

reference.

 

Jason Borger Nature of Fly Casting pp.85

 

Yes.  G.

 

7.) Briefly describe it.

    After the loop is formed raising the rod to draw in some slack then letting it fall to the water’s surface.

 

Agree.  G.

8.) What is a STACK MEND ?

 

    Reposition of the fly line to improve drift. After the line in on the water moving the line up stream or across, to set slack where needed. By making an underpowered cast. Or Flip of the rod tip.

 

Agree.  One can make a series of stack mends if, for example, fishing with a full sink line in an attempt to have it descend as far as desired in the water column. There are some tricks to this to prevent the fly line from crossing over the rod tip and tangling.  Will address that at a different time. G.

 

9.) When would you use it when fishing ?

            Most any moving water to improve the drift. Re setting the slack.

 

Yes.  adding slack.  Also, adding to the sinking of the line when desired.   G.

10.) Would you ever make an on-the-water DOWNSTREAM MEND ?

        yes

 

11.)  When ? T        o keep the drag off the fly line in multiple current paths. Longer drifts.

 

Agree.  Also, to avoid an obstruction (Flip a mend over it."   G.

 

12.) Briefly describe a PUDDLE MEND.

            Loop is aimed just a little high. The rod is dropped to the surface faster than the loop/line drops this give a “S” in the rod leg of the line.

 

Yes.  One could call that a "cast-mend".  Same as the PILE CAST...the dropping of the rod after the cast itself would be the mend produced by what Mac Brown termed, "ROD FADE".   G.

13.) For what is it used ?

            Down stream mends, or cross current where multiple current paths occur to reduce drag.

 

Yes.   G.

 

14.) For making mends, which is more efficient...  A short rod or a long one ?

            Long

15.) Why ?

            Better control of the slack or rod leg of the line. Further reach or over obstacles.

 

Sure.  Putting it another way, the extra length allows you to lift and move more line.  The angler can move large amounts of line for huge mends with a 15' Spey rod.   

 G.

16.) Would you ever add a CURVE MEND to a REACH MEND ?

            Yes.

17.) For what reason ?

            Compound casts are a mark of a good fisherman. They are better able to control the slack line and drift of the fly.

 

True.  In this instance, we can call it a "compound mend".   G.

 

18.) You are trying to place an aerial mend to counter a tongue of fast current 40" out on the river.  What do you do with your line hand after your loop has formed ?

 

  SHOOT some line to maintain the mend in the rod leg. This loop or mend is made just after the loop is formed. If you did not shoot the drag would pull the mend out.

 

Yes.  In this case, LET GO OF THE LINE.  (Also helps to aim the rod at your target and even thrust it a bit in that direction..... all done so the fast moving loop doesn't straighten out and ruin your mend on the way.)

 

19.) Back in the 1930's & 40's, there were very few salt water fly fishermen. Some of them fishing NE waters, use the term MEND to mean something very different from our present meaning.  Do you know what that was ?

Repair of the line to over come wave action.???

 

NOT a fair question.  Only old F....ts like me who were there would likely remenber that to these anglers, the term MEND meant pulling back with the line hand after the cast (a strip) to straighten out any slack on the layout.  G.

 

20.)  Would you ever make two aerial mends after your cast ?

  YES

21.)  For what purpose ?

            I call these compound cast. To make the line lay as needed. i.e. Fly set to the left with a hook mend and more ‘slack’ set up stream to the right as in a Z cast. Or Snake roll to get more ‘slack’ up stream in fast water.

    Slack or puddle mends to get my slack over the sinking fly i.e. Beaded or Clouser style. Then set as much up current as I can. I use this in flats fishing the guts on a falling tide to get my fly down in the water column.

Casting just a little high, you have about 2 seconds to set your slack as needed.

 

Agree... though I'd call them compound mends.  Some reserve the name "compound" to mean a mend within a mend such as the curve mend placed within a reach mend.

 

One might have two obstructions each one handled with mend .... two mends after one cast.  OR we might use it to counter two seperate tongues of current as we place a fly beyond both for a drift.

 

Gordy

--
Allen Crise
FFF Master Casting Instructor
Hawk Ridge Flycasting School
2508 A County Rd. 1011
Glen Rose TX 76043
254-897-2045 h