FOG / "LIFT" / Humidity/ "Climbing loop" / Attachments

Gordy,

Just thinking now without any scientific evidence--greater lift in dry air, less lift in humid air.

Does the fly line generate lift when casting? I am able to throw a side arm cast and watch the loop rise as the cast lengthens.

In 1978 I observe an altimeter setting of 26.81 flying in Hurricane Federick and remember a high setting on a clear cold Autumn day of 30.21--thus a great disparity exist in air pressure depending on weather conditions.

As for fog there are several types and by definition fog is a cloud that begins within 50 feet of the surface and is formed when the air is saturated with moisture and can longer hold condensation nuclei. Fog is classified in the manner in which it is formed

If you are interested I will will relay info from the "FAA handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge" regarding radiation fog, advection fog, up-slope fog, and steam fog.

As far as the fly line traveling less on high humid days verse dry day I remain in the fog but I am thinking on this!

Jerry Puckett

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Jerry....

I'd be interested in what you find out re fog.

In the past, I was skeptical of claims that a traveling fly line loop can have "lift". Then I started noting some evidence that this can occur. I really couldn't tell while observing my own casts, but I have seen what may be true lift as I watched others cast. Some have called this the CLIMBING LOOP.

Perhaps others in our Group have more information about this.

Gordy

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Jerry followed up with more detailed info. on fog. I placed in in the second & third attachments. G.

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HUMIDITY

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From Ralph Tomacio:

Hi Gordy,

You said:

“Now I'm guessing. Fact IS that I can't reach my max distances when casting here in the tropics at sea level on days when the humidity is high. This might be due to an effect upon the fly line (???) and not have anything to do with the air density. Someday I'll have the answer!”

Have you ever factored in that we, as people who are not infallable and sometimes inconsistent, may not be casting as efficiently as when it’s not humid? I know that when it’s too humid and I’m not the least bit comfortable, I don’t perform anywhere near how I do when conditions are comfortable. When and how much do we factor in the human element and it’s inconsistencies when comparing conditions as described above? Maybe someone who tolerates humidity well wouldn’t notice any difference in their casting. Whereas, for another, that effect on the fly line may not have anything to do with the air density but, rather, with the caster.

This is just a WAG on my part and I may be way off base. If so, please disregard my response altogether. Just trying to get into the nitty-gritty of the science behind casting.

Ralph Tomaccio

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Ralph .... You may be right about that ! Gordy

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Aerial ments .... Quiz

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Gary Davison has sent another set of good answers. I placed it in an attachment. G.

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Here is a list of questions on practicing aerial mends :

1.) Before starting practice, can you answer these brief questions about in-the-air mends ?

a. How would you define the term, MEND ? Line control after RSP

b. Name at least two uses for an aerial mend. Introduce slack line presentation, line placement due to fishing conditions and obstacles.

c. Tell us two differences between a curve cast and an aerial mend. Not sure what your asking here? The differences between a cast and a mend is line control on a cast is prior to RSP, Mend is after RSP.

2.) You are starting to practice "wiggle mends". You wish to make a series of small mends and then a series of large ones.

a. How do you make the series of small (narrow) wiggle mends ? (Say 1' wide) Fast short movements of the rod tip from left to right.

b. What do you do differently to make your series of wide mends? (About 4' wide" Slower longer movements of the rod tip from left to right.

c. You want to place a series of wiggle mends out at a distance with a straight layout between you and the first mend. How do you do that ? Administer the fast short movement right after RSP for a brief time interval for the desired results at the end of the line with the balance of the cast showing not mending to allow straight line outlay.

d. When would you elect to do that when fishing ? Fast running water in a small section along the opposite bank with calm water leading up to it from your bank location. Or provided on a down stream cast to induce slack line presentation at a precise area of the stream for the drift desired.

e. Now you want to place a series of wiggle mends close to you with a straight line layout between the last mend and the target. How do you do that ? Administer just the opposite of C. Make the cast and wait until late in the layout to administer the fast short movement right to left. The mends will lay out close to you the caster.

f. When would you use that technique when fishing ? When fast currents are close into you and you are casting across to a slower current for presentation and drift. Or down stream cast to provide slack line presentation.

3.) You are starting to practice single mends to the right and to the left.

a. What movements do you make to form one NARROW mend ? (About 18" wide) Very Fast & Short movement of the rod tip to left & back to line path for left mend, to right back to line path for right mend.

Note: The length of time held at the outer reach point of the mend will dictate a long or short length mend. The length of rod tip travel away from the line path for a mend will dictate the width of the mend from line path.

b. " " " " " " " " WIDE mend ? (About 5' wide) Fast & Longer movement of the rod tip.

c. " " " " " " " " LONG mend ? (About 10' long) Longer time line held on outreach of mend

d. " " " " " " " " SHORT mend (About 2' long) Shorter time line held on outreach of mend

d. When would you use a narrow mend while fishing ? Small isolated areas of slower current. Slower waters

e. When would you use a wide mend while fishing ? Small isolated areas of faster current. Faster waters.

f. When might you elect to use a long mend when fishing ? Larger areas of fast current. Or conditions obstacles to avoid.

4.) Would you use targets as you practice these mends ? Yes to home the distance. Plus change up location, distances and angles to become skilled at the task, based on the variety of conditions you may encounter.

5.) You want to place mends at various distances. What do you do differently in placing a mend at 35' from you than you did when you placed one at 15' ? Time the mend based on the lay out of the line. The earlier in the layout the further away the mend. The later in the layout the closer the mend will be.

6.) Realizing that it may be difficult, you now want to place a mend way out there at 45' from you. How would you do that ? Be very fast at I'mplementing the mend after RSP "depending on the line being carried". Timing is everything. Practice, Practice, Practice!

Gordy

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Gary Davison

Gulf Coast Spey

CND Custom Design: Representative

Willis, TX.

Office: 936-890-9639

Cell: 281-415-5142

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cndspeyusa.com

-------Original Message-------

From: Gordy Hill

Date: 4/25/2009 2:52:04 PM

To: Gary Davison

Subject: SLP- Loop / Practicing aerial mends

Gary & Group....

The picture of Troy Miller (one of our engineers) fly fishing in the Arctic didn't go through ... so I'm going to try a different way of placing it in an attachment. Gordy

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From Ally Gowans:

Hi Gordy,

Iâm not certain of what the most accurate wording of the âline follows the rod tipâ rule should be. Itâs far from simple to include the huge number of variations possible and demonstrate that they are all adequately described by the same few words but the simple statement âthe line follows the rod tipâ or âthe line follows the rod tip and is sent in the direction of the tip when it stopsâ is fine for beginners with a short line although its clearly not totally accurate. Maybe Alâs definition is correct, looks like it could be an interesting conclave!

One significant variable is the orientation and length/shape of the line prior to eg a forward cast commencing, if itâs not practically straight your statement âYou need an almost straight line path of your rod for a tight loop. Smooth application of power helps to achieve thisâ is not true.

Best wishes,

Ally Gowans

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Ally.... I wasn't talking about the orientation, length/shape of the line prior to the forward cast; rather during it. Here, if we have non-smooth application of power (erratic power) we will likely have a tailing loop..... G.

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PRACTICING AERIAL MENDS

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Here is a list of questions on practicing aerial mends :

1.) Before starting practice, can you answer these brief questions about in-the-air mends ?

a. How would you define the term, MEND ?

b. Name at least two uses for an aerial mend.

c. Tell us two differences between a curve cast and an aerial mend.

2.) You are starting to practice "wiggle mends". You wish to make a series of small mends and then a series of large ones.

a. How do you make the series of small (narrow) wiggle mends ? (Say 1' wide)

b. What do you do differently to make your series of wide mends? (About 4' wide"

c. You want to place a series of wiggle mends out at a distance with a straight layout between you and the first mend. How do you do that ?

d. When would you elect to do that when fishing ?

e. Now you want to place a series of wiggle mends close to you with a straight line layout between the last mend and the target. How do you do that ?

f. When would you use that technique when fishing ?

3.) You are starting to practice single mends to the right and to the left.

a. What movements do you make to form one NARROW mend ? (About 18" wide)

b. " " " " " " " " WIDE mend ? (About 5' wide)

c. " " " " " " " " LONG mend ? (About 10' long)

d. " " " " " " " " SHORT mend (About 2' long)

d. When would you use a narrow mend while fishing ?

e. When would you use a wide mend while fishing ?

f. When might you elect to use a long mend when fishing ?

4.) Would you use targets as you practice these mends ?

5.) You want to place mends at various distances. What do you do differently in placing a mend at 35' from you than you did when you placed one at 15' ?

6.) Realizing that it may be difficult, you now want to place a mend way out there at 45' from you. How would you do that ?

Gordy

Fog, by definition, is a cloud that begins within 50 feet of the surface. It typically occurs when the temperature of air near the ground is cooled to the air's dewpoint. At this point, water vapor in the air condenses and becomes visible in the form of fog. Fog is classified according to the manner in which it forms and is dependent upon current temperature and the amount of water vapor in the air.

On clear nights, with relatively little to no wind present, radiation fog may develop. Usually, it forms in low -lying areas like mountain valleys. This type of fog occurs when the ground cools rapidly due to terrestrial radiation, and the surrounding air temperature reaches its dewpoint. As the sun rises and the temperature increases, if radiation fog is less than 20 feet thick, it is known as ground fog.

When a layer of warm, moist air moves over a cold surface, advection fog is likely to occur. Unlike radiation fog, wind is required to form advection fog. Winds of up to 15 knots allow the fog to form and intensify; above a speed of 15 knots, the fog usually lifts and forms low stratus clouds. Advection fog is common in coastal areas where sea breezes can blow the air over cooler landmasses.

In the same coastal areas upslope fog is likely as well. Upslope fog occurs when moist, stable air is forced up sloping land features like a mountain range. This type fog also requires wind for formation and continued existence. Upslope and advection, unlike radiation fog, may not burn off with the morning sun, but can persist for days. They can also extend to greater heights than radiation fog.

Steam fog, or sea smoke, forms when cold, dry air moves over warm water.

as the water evaporates, it rises and resembles smoke. This type of fog is common over bodies of water during the coldest times of the year. Low-level turbulence and icing are commonly associated with steam fog.

Ice fog occurs in cold weather when the temperature is much below freezing and water vapor forms directly into ice crystals. Conditions favorable for its formation are the same as for radiation fog except for cold temperature, -25 degrees F or colder. It occurs mostly in the arctic regions during the cold season.

One more point on radiation fog, as the sun rises, and the temperature increases. radiation fog will will lift and eventually burn off. Any increase in wind will also speed the dissipation of radiation fog.

During the sixties I would fly up the intercoastal waterway at Cape Kennedy and wait for the moon shots as the fog lifted and dissipated.. Awesome orange glow in the fog as the rockets motors ignited.. I was at 1O,500 feet, by the time the rocket pass my altitude at about three miles distance it had reached bullet speed.

Also have landed at Miami International airport at 12 pm and rolled into advection fog half way down the runway into zero visibility. Took a slow forever taxi to reach the terminal!

I think there is one more type of fog called affection fog that forms in the brain when two teenagers fall in love!