Practice methods for DISTANCE / Wt. Balanced Flies

WE HAVE LOTS OF HINTS FOR PRACTICING DISTANCE CASTING WITH THE MESSAGES, TODAY. Gordy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Jerry Puckett on practice distance casting. My comments in his text in bold blue italics. G.:

Gordy:

Having had the privilege of watching the Best of the West distance casters I have practiced each style as I have observed it. Do we get set in one particular style without exploring another style (or selected aspects of a style) to see if we can add distance to our cast?

Sometimes I try to do exactly that as I practice distance. Interesting to me that on some days a change of style from my default way of casting (more of a Lefty style) helps. On other days it doesn't...?????.

As you do, I sometimes use my own style but change one aspect at a time to experiment. I think by doing that it teaches me more about ME. G.

Other thoughts:

1- a clean line verse one that is really drag dirty can add 5-10 feet to the cast in my

distance casting practice.

2- Each of the distant casters in B.O.W. competition always stretch the line prior to a

competitive cast. (I think we have already covered this one.)

Both 1 and 2 deserve repeating ! G.

3- Already mentioned but recommended to me by Bruce Richards is practice as many

ways as one can to carry more line while false casting. (increasing stroke length)

Obviously this would include what I call break down of each aspect of a cast--

solid foundation with tight loops for the maximum amount of line carried, balanced

double haul with as much speed as possible on the delivery cast without creating a

tailing loop.

Yes, indeed. (I was hoping someone would bring that up.) On one of my messages to this Group several years ago, a outlined the way I do it .... in steps. When I get close to the amount of line I can carry with decent loops I'll make my next cast concentrating on the tight loop. Maybe a few more. Then I go to concentrate on bending the rod adequately. After that, I might go to concentrating on trajectory. Then the haul. I might go to trying the delay of rod arc by using more "drag" (translation)Then stroke length relative to rod arc.... and try to increase tip travel with body motion and maybe even a step or jump forward, etc., etc. This is exactly what you have labeled as BREAK DOWN OF EACH ASPECT OF A CAST.

Ladies have what they call "bad hair days". I have some "bad casting days". When I do, I back track and try for ever more perfect casts by going for no more than about 60 - 70 feet. G.

This is especially important to me as I get older (I'm 78).... and my strength isn't what it was a few years ago. Even as I strive to improve, that "last 5 %" does require an element of strength, so most older casters find tht their total distance achievements diminish . That's life ! G.

4- Working on and watching the back cast.. I have watched Steve Rajeff and without fail as

you have mentioned, he looks at his back cast for the forward cast he wants and then

lets it fly! In comparison the other distance caster's back cast had loops that were very

open compared to Steves. So lots of work on the back cast to set up the forward cast.

Helps to look and also suggest video of the back cast for a best view for study.

Sure. We must remember, THE BACK CAST IS THE SETUP FOR THE PRESENTATION CAST ! I remember back when Bob Andreae wrote an article on the importance of the back cast..... entitled it YOUR MOST IMPORTANT CAST ! G.

5- I use a 200 foot tape for practice and stand at the 100 foot mark and work on 180

degree trajectory from a lateral standpoint occasionally, without looking, let the line fall

on the ground for critique. Also work on beginning the forward cast as the

back cast fully reaches 180 degree for the forward cast trajectory.

Yes. Joan Wulff's "see saw".

4- I talked with Steve and Rick at length after the competition and this was their answer to

my question--define and describe your stop on the final cast to which they both replied,

"when I run of arm!" I would describe this move as one with rocket speed but truly a

thing of beauty to see. Has helped me add distance.

That is also the secret to Lefty's wind cast .... called by the Borger's, the "thrust cast". Works great for blasting a tight loop into a strong head wind. G.

5- Elbow position in its natural position close to the body allowing the shoulder

muscles to work efficiently without contraction tension. Very important, also reduces

fatigue.

The more we cast with the elbow up and out, the quicker we fatigue, distance casting or no. G.

6- Lastly get a good instructor who not only can cast distance but can teach it.

No question about it. The instructor can see things the caster simply can't. That reminds me of Molly Semenik who found serendipitously that while practicing distance casting in front of her home in Livingston Mt., that she could see herself and her cast in the large "mirror" provided by the big -picture window when the sun was just right. THAT is seeing a side image of your cast in real time .... better than a video. G.

This is the journey I have taken to increase my five weight cast from 75 feet to a

consistent 90 to 100 feet in practice over the last three years.

Gordy, if this is too long and to much of a repeat then just delete, it has serve me well

in thinking about ways to improve my distance cast! Great string!

Great addition to our string, Jerry ! G.

Thanks, Jerry Puckett

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Two issues re distance casting practice by David Lambert (His attachment, above.) :

Gordy -Two concepts on distance that I haven't seen mentioned:

1) Pause for a microsecond longer on the final backcast to allow the line to drop a bit, then adjust the angle of your delivery cast upward slightly to maintain effective SLP. This alters your trajectory upward, allowing more time for your line to unroll before gravity kicks in. Attached, not a distance cast rod bend, but it shows a slightly rising back-front casting plane.

Yes. See Joan Wulff's FLY CASTING TECHNIQUES; LONG CAST TRAJECTORY, p. 123.

2) Mac (Brown) introduced me to the 'vector retrieve' to bring in line quickly. For those who don't know it: pinch the line off at or just above the rod handle with rod hand. With line hand, take the line to retrieve from above pinch-off area and retrieve (not from below the line finger as in a conventional retrieve), keeping the line close to the rod and your body,
If you have a 6-foot wingspan and bring in a full stretch of line, you will retrieve 12 feet with each retrieve, 24-25 feet in two strips.
This is moves more lie than a two-hand retrieve and is useful for enticing speedy fish such as barracuda, musky, and other fish who want a fast chase.

Note: CASTING ANGLES by Mac Brown ... drawings on p. 144, text, pp 145-147.

Chalk it up to my not getting really good at this. My own preference is the two handed retrieve when practicing for two reasons: 1. I can do it faster. 2. It allows me to place my rod in my armpit so I'm not holding it in my hand for hours of practice..

Incidentally: Here in the Fl. Keys, we used to catch lots of barracuda by using a very fast retrieve all the way. Now the fish are getting spookier and less inclined to strike. What works best for me, is to cast way out beyond the cuda and off to one side (so you don't line him). Let the fly hover in the water for a moment or two.... then begin a very slow retrieve. as the fish turns to see it and begins to go toward it, retrieve ever faster and faster. Sometimes they'll strike just before you pick it up near the skiff. Point is that they seem to go for the ACCELERATION better than pure speed. If you start it as fast as you can, you can't accelerate ! I've only caught one musky on fly, so I can't say that this works with that fish. G.

It's is a bit ungainly at first, but the comfort level increases with a bit of practice.

Right. Clearly, I need to practice it more. G.

David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Jim Laing . My comments in his text in bold blue italics G.

Gordy,

In the 80' range and after a fresh CCI pass, I would recommend the candidate read Al Kyte's articles in the master study guide for a thorough understanding of the key ingredients that make up a good distance cast. Agree G.

The first thing I would work on would be perfecting a very straight back cast carry at an optimal distance for that 90' cast. I think its important at first to measure back cast progress as Tom states by laying down and measuring the BC carry just as the loop begins to deteriorate. Then measure those BC distances after shooting the line. Keep track of how much your carrying and shooting - what is the percentage of distance increase after the shoot?

Good point. Also, the back cast direction. If it is off to one side, then you are not likely to track well on the forward cast. Practice AIMING the back cast to a target behind you helps ..... a cloud, tree, building corner, etc.

As I think you know, I favor marking your line at the point where you consistantly do OK but where you loops start to deteriorate if you carry more. I do this, not with a marker, but with something I can FEEL .... like a not too tight nail knot tied with 4 lb. mono. Even if I don't feel it as I slip line with my line hand, I can hear it click in the guides as soon as I've false cast a bit too much line. It is easy to remove and re tie. as you get to carry more line. G.

With any of these drills its important to practice a controlled pick-up and slipping and shooting line while maintaining perfect loops (front and back) until that optimal carry is reached. I like to see consistency in the loops through that variable rod arc as length is increased. The goal at this point would be to make the rod tip travel in a straight line path from the time the rod begins to move until loop formation on every cast. Yes. G.

Video analysis from front and side views would be a good way to measure progress by studying your loop shape. On the flip-side, try casting at night. It is impossible to see the line, so focus on feeling the rod bend and unbend as you lengthen the carry. Try varying the speed of the cast - slow to fast/ fast to slow...

Nice addition. Casting at night teaches us to add the FEEL of what is going on as another parameter. G.

Always practice casting into the wind. Ideally a slight wind of 3-4 mph. If your working on your BC drills, then put your BC into the wind.

.......... and then practice with wind from different quarters. G.

After the candidate has reached his goal of effortlessly and flawlessly casting 100' in just a few cycles, 9 out of 10 times, experiment with style - try casting like Paul Arden, Steve Rajeff and Rick Hartman. Make an effort to understand how they achieve similar results with different style.

This is a good idea even if it reinforces your need to return to your own default style. Might well make you tweak your own way of casting. Also helps when fishing when (distance or not) you need to change style to meet a particular fishing/casting circumstance. G.

Jim

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Large and Weight Balanced Flies

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Gordy,

The longest (and biggest) fly I've tied is 27 inches long. It was wide too. I tied it up for somebody who was going to troll Great Bear Lake in the Northwest Territories for giant Lake Trout.

I weighted it the same as I did (and do) a fifteen inch, or 14, or 17 inch fly. I didn't weigh it. I actually never have weighed any of my flies. I bet it would weigh about two big hooks, wire in between, and an equivalent of three large size Spirit River weighted dumbell eyes. Maybe four. Plus some absorbed water in the synthetic materials.

I was curious to see how it casted so I took it down to the water and casted it 100 ft. It casted surprizingly well. But I had a hunch it would.

The biggest I've fished is 17 inches long (of course wide too). Gordy, I also fished that one for Lake Trout in Northern Canada, and was easily fishing it with an 8 wt. rod and a 9 wt. WF floating fly line. Fishing it (and casting of course) the entire length of the fly line (line was 100 or 105 ft.) if I wanted to, no problem. Weight balancing makes that much of a difference.

The biggest flies I've casted at my demonstrations at the Fly Fishing Shows I think was 25 inches long. Often 20 and 22 inches. I ended the shows by sometimes casting these with a 5 wt. rod to show, one, that it can be done, and two, to show the effectivness of weight balancing and what it opens up.

I haven't casted the real big ones in the last couple of years. I sort of got bored. 12 to 15 inches is big enough for an effect.

I hit 'ol Al in the head with one (and didn't know it until he told me about it a couple years later) down at the show in Arlington, Texas. How 'bout THAT!

Hope All Is Well,
Mark
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only thing I've run across on weight balanced flies is what I've heard from you. I'd like to learn how to do that.

The heaviest flies I generally use are he larger of my permit flies. They weigh between 1/8th oz. and (The largest we call the "Double Dong" is 1/4 oz.) These are definitely way out of balance for the reason that I like the fly to hit the water, then immediately turn hook eye down and sink rapidly that way. We like that because that is the way a small blue claw crab dives down into the grass or sand when a predator like a permit approaches. If it hits bottom and the permit doesn't take it, I'll gently twitch it once. If he still refuses it, I'll put the rod tip into the water and v e r y s o w l y draw it along the bottom so it acts like a crab crawling. If it gets stuck in the grass, I just wiggle it very gently and sometimes the permit will pluck it out of the grass for me and we have a hookup.

Of course they don't cast well at all. For that reason, I'll either use a side arm cast with an upward delayed curve or an elliptical ("Belgian" ) cast..... the latter if I need distance as well as accuracy.

We've used 12" and 14" large heavy flies ..... tied with 2 #4/0 hooks in tandem, with an epoxy slider or popper head for billfish. Here casting isn't much of an issue, because we've teased the fish up so the cast is only 20' to 35 ' if that. We call it "Chuck-&-Duck". Even so, an elliptical cast works best for me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`