Listen to the question !

Gordy, A "point of order" - One thing studying for the masters has taught me is to study the question before giving an answer. Your question re curves was "How do you advise your students to practice curve casts ?"

Hi Gordy

Curve casting: I agree with many of the comments and teaching techniques that you are getting back. The curve to the left (for a right handed caster) is the cast to begin with and it can be accomplished many different ways. For first timers to curves I also like to have something to curve around. I use a pointer on the ground so that there is no confusion as to which way the cast is to curve. Also I use a deer hair bug or small mouse pattern (on hook shank) to get more leader action.

Your question is not about teaching the curve, but practicing !

But I will start with the teaching. I personally like to make the cast side arm at first with the student standing directly behind me. IMP: I usually get on my knees so the student can see the my hand, the rod position and the line without having to look around me.

It is important for the student to FACE THE TARGET (where you want the fly to land). With the student's hand on top of mine or vice versa I make the cast a few times with a slight curve, so the student feels the quick stop and the position of the rod at the stop. After a few times I encourage the student to proceed on their own. When they get a slight curve 50% of the time I go back and add more 'KICK' making the curve sharper. AND I do mean 'go back', once the student has got the basic technique it's time to leave them alone to experiment without our constant correction.

The 'NEGATIVE CURVE' or the curve to the right (for a right handed caster) can be made in the same manner except the rod is cast side arm from the left, and taught the same way. My personal opinion is that this is a much tougher cast when made 'side arm'. I prefer to make this cast from an 'off shoulder' position with the use of the wrist.

I teach the cast in a similar manner, with one major exception: 1. position the body to face the TARGET, 2. as the instructor, get down on our knees with the student directly behind you; 3. make a few casts so the student sees the results. THEN position the student 'FACING YOU' rod and reel only (no line out) and show the student the position of the hand AND ROD when doing the 'PICK UP'. On the 'PICK UP' the hand turns in (see your finger nails) and the reel is in your face (RT HAND CASTER: if you reel with the left hand you are facing the handle side) and the ROD TIP is tilted over the left shoulder. This puts the rod TIP to the left and the hand is now in a position to move from 'finger nails turned in' back to 'thumb on top'. This movement moves the 'slightly OFF VERTICAL rod tip' in a curving path from left to right, line follows tip, line curves right.

There a at least 3 or 4 methods for making curves from either side.

A few minutes of practice and the cast gets better, and easier.

Summary. 1 FACE TARGET. 2. Use a deer hair fly. 3. Make SLIGHT curves at first. 3. Practice.

Dennis

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COMMENT: Dennis brings up some important points here which deserve repeated reading. One is the need for ALONE TIME for the student to absorb what you have taught. I have found that this is particularly important when teaching specialty casts such as the curves.

Gordy

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From Mac Brown. I make a few comments in bold blue italics in his text .... G. :-

Gordy,

I cannot find a description on what we are to answer on curves (I think I did not get that one). Here are a few points since we are on the subject of curves.

The wrist twist one works as well but I found it lacking in description in text years ago to do any real good. The most critical part of that one is 100% dependent on where is the loop plane oriented from the rod tip?? If trying to wrist flip to the rod hand side for a positive curve to the right then it should have a loop plane 90* off to the line hand side (assuming you are doing this cast with a vertical rod). Loop planes are so very critical when dealing with all of the various types of curves. I think it was Gary that stated teaching that one to the off shoulder (which makes it easier to throw the loop plane off to the line hand side). Rod orientation and loop plane in my opinion really have nothing to do with one another. The loop plane can be anywhere from any rod position. They are independent of one another.

Agree. G.

Another form of curves which gets little attention is the curves which result from casting ovals (ellipses). For shorter rapid casts on the water, I prefer lightning quick ovals all in one motion. Curves to the right, rotate counterclockwise--curve left rotate clockwise. This makes it easy to teach and perform for students.

Another neat curve from snaps is draw the U shape slow at the bottom and fast over the top and you get curves you can control. Most snaps are done from top to bottom of the U that sends it flying in the direction of the closed U shape.

The tailing loop curves is another subject of interest when talking about curves. They still have tails that are negative, normal, and positive depending on where you want the curves.

I'd reserve these last two for advanced casters who have already mastered basic curves. I've always liked your term, "enlightenment casts" for things like these. G.

On another note, I am so glad you brought up negative curves Gordy, because still the negative curves seem to get a bad rap overall. Yes, they can be accurate once the caster learns when to rod fade. For years, I have read authors state they are not accurate. I disagree. I prefer them overall because it leads to a lazy relaxed cast.

You have pointed this out before, and I agree. However, they are not as easy to control when it's windy. One drawback to the underpowered curves, is that while they can be made easily and with accuracy ... they can be place over a low bush or rock, but not around a high obstruction such as a tree. G.

In the college FF program, we had all of the students (35-40) each semester throwing positive and negative curves within 2 classes. I think the biggest reason this was accomplished is because they were not indoctrinated with countless wasted hours of practicing vertical casting. On the other hand, I had many a seasoned angler that thought curves were tough-probably from spending countless hours on the wrong thing when practicing.

I think you are right about that. G.

Keep up the fine work Gordy!

Cheers, Mac

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From Troy Miller :

Interesting point of view from Gary. As a student of Joe Humphreys (meaning that I learned to tuck cast very early on, well before I learned to curve cast), I’ve looked at a sidearm curve as simply a horizontal tuck. I teach all these casts under a grouping that I call centrifugal momentum casts. In my teaching of linear momentum (SLP all the way through the cast, as close as one can muster), I also show students what tracking errors cause. I give the hint that errors are only errors if you use them without intent or purpose. When we can capture the result reliably/repeatably to our benefit – now we have something useful. Months later, when my student is capable of controlled straight-line loops, I ask him/her to recall the early lesson about tracking errors. I ask them if they’re ready to make some intentional, controlled tracking errors to enhance presentation or line control in actual fishing situations. Of course, they ALWAYS wanna see how to transform a screw up into something to feel good about… J

I REALLY appreciate your intro to the upward unrolling curve, which Dave Whitlock deftly demonstrates in his classic old video Fly Fishing for Bass, Top to Bottom. Once I learned the intricacies of that cast, I’ve used it in fishing for EVERY species I’ve chucked a fly at. It is one of my most important and favored presentations to spooky fish everywhere. Dave referred to it as an “underhand cast”, useful for forcing loops up underneath overhanging trees or brush near shore. Of course, it has myriad additional uses to the inventive angler…

Troy... Joan Wulff describes that one as an "upward curving power snap". G.

While not at all an accomplished tarpon angler, I’ve used that exact technique (tip underwater) that Lefty describes on other jump-happy fish like LM bass, steelhead, and cohos. Usually it works, although some fish are just not meant to be landed… J

Regards,
Troy Miller
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Listen to the question ! - Curves