Walter & Group....
I'm back (and have over 400 messages to read and answer !)
Here are answers to our quiz on OVERHANG by Michael Jones. His answeres are in red. My comments to his answers follow in bold blue italics. G.
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Gordy:
1.) How do you define overhang ?
Overhang is the amount of running line behind the rear taper of the head of the fly line.
Yes. The length of running line between the rear taper and the rod tip. G.
2.) It has been taught that overhand can very much affect your student's roll cast.
a. Do you agree ? I think you mean 'overhang, not overhand', and the answer is "Yes, too much overhang can adversely affect a student's success in performing an efficient roll cast".
b. If you do, tell us how ? Too much overhang causes too much work on the end of the student to supply rod load vs. efficiency. With too much thin running line (overhang), the caster must be ultimately efficient in the roll cast to achieve an efficient presentation of the leader. A long rear taper (absence of overhang) allows the rod's loaded energy to transfer to a greater degree (greater efficiency) in presenting the leader, by virtue of a greater mass of line over a shorter distance.
I did mean overhang. Thanks !
Tom White used to put it like this: When roll casting you need "fat line" at or near the rod tip to turn over the thin line of the taper in front of it. If you have "skinny line" beyond the rod tip as you start to roll cast, that "skinny line" cannot turn over the "fat line" in front of it.
That "skinny line" between the rod tip and the back of the fly line head is OVERHANG. G.
3.) One author quotes Steve Rajeff on the use of overhang when distance casting. Who is that ? Jim C. Chapralis
I have not run across a quote by Jim Chapralis, though it may exist. I was thinking of the one by Jason Borger in his, NATURE OF FLY CASTING, p. 240
4.) The quote in 3.) states that, "overhang is the barometer for the rate of turnover of the head." Is this a question?
Not a question..... leads to # 5.)
5.) BRIEFLY explain how that can affect distance casting with a shooting head. (Assuming roll casting) With too much overhang, a long casting stroke is exhausted in attempting to move a long length of line with very little mass (shooting head + overhang), where keeping the shooting head closer to the rod tip increases the efficiency of the cast, resulting in a better executed shoot of the head, followed by the running line (shooting)! This can be simply stated as: "It is more efficient to shoot (overhanging) running line than it is to cast it, in a traditional roll cast."
Well..... I meant distance straight line casting, not roll casting. Casting is easier when you don't have to contend with much overhang. However, much greater distance can be achieved when expert casters handle lots of overhang well. Read the description in Jason's book. Simply put:
For practical purposes, the loop is only traveling forward as long as it is unrolling. The longer it takes to unroll, then, the farther it goes (provided it doesn't drop to the surface due to gravity.) When you cast with a shooting head and carry lots of overhang (the running line behind the head) it takes longer for the loop to unroll, hence greater distance. G.
6.) Do you encourage your "intermediate" casting student to cast with maximum overhang ? NO
Agree. G.
7.) Why ? Maximum overhang casting is better suited for elite (not intermediate) casters. If an intermediate caster could consistently manage and effectively present maximum overhang while roll casting, I would consider them "elite" casters.
Not even elite casters can cast easily or get great distance whcn roll casting with lots of overhang. These expert casters use it to advantage for straight line distance casting for the reasons I cited, above. G.
8.) How do you measure overhang when casting with a CRT (continuous rear taper) fly line ? By definition, overhang is considered the line behind the rear taper, so overhang would only be considered after the entire rear taper was out of the rod tip, independent of line designation.
This is a trick question ! With the CRT line there is no true running line. This is because the rear taper is a long continuous taper all the way to the back end of the line. Having noted that, for practical purposes when lots of the thin part of this back taper lies between the rod tip and the head of the line, one could consider that as functionally a "shooting line". Problem with measuring it is that there is no defined forward end point. G.
9.) How do you measure it when fishing for pan fish or bass with a level fly line ? By definition, there is no overhang with this set-up.
Yes. (Now you get the picture.)
10.) What happens when you cast with more overhang than you can handle ? The resulting cast lacks efficiency in turning over the leader and possibly the body and front taper of the fly line.
Yes. Putting it differently, you may well lose control. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST COMMON PROBLEMS I SEE AS I MENTOR AND COACH MCCI CANDIDATES WHO HAVE TROUBLE MAKING WELL CONTROLLED 85' DISTANCE CASTS.
THEY FALSE CAST UNTIL THEY HAVE MORE LINE AND OVERHANG OUT OF THE ROD TIP THAN THEY CAN HANDLE AND STILL HAVE TIGHT LOOPS WITH HIGH LOOP SPEED. THEN THEY MAKE AN INEFFICIENT DELIVERY CAST. EVEN IF THEY MAKE THE REQUIRED DISTANCE, THE LAYOUT IS SLOPPY AND THEY GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF WORKING MUCH TOO HARD TO MAKE THE CAST. NOT A GOOD CAST TO SERVE TO TEACH THEIR STUDENTS !
Bruce Richards and I discussed that at length and agreed that the principal reason elite casters such as Steve Rajeff can handle so much overhang to their advantage is their ability to have an almost straight line path of the rod tip in all planes coupled with really smooth continuous acceleration ending with rapid deceleration of the rod (what we teach as the STOP). G.
11.) COUNTERFLEX is discussed in the messages, above. What is it. Counterflex is the directional progress of the rod past RSP after the 'stop' that results by virtue of the rods flexibility while carrying it's own mass forward.
Yes. G.
12.) How does it differ from REBOUND ? Counterflex is the absorption of the rods momentum when stopped in a forward direction. Rebound is the reverse & diminished 'bounce' of counterflex, in the absolute opposite direction.
Yes. G.
Michael Jones
Maine
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Question from Mark Huber: